Bajoran Space
- Thread starter Lorna
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I think Bajoran space consisted of a single sector of space--about six or so star systems--and was only named so because Bajor was the primary system in that region.
But I think the Bajor System itself had 14 planets and many more moons, and some of them were colonized...
But I think the Bajor System itself had 14 planets and many more moons, and some of them were colonized...
Well, the trek in general has tended to be kind of iffy on how big a star system is and how far apart things are. We can never be sure, for example, how far Empock Nor was from DS9 (formerly Terak Nor), how far Bajor was from Cardassia, how far Bajor was from Earth, etc. ... sometimes it seems like it takes a long time to even get from Bajor to the orbitting station, other times it's a short trip from the station to say, Risa or Earth. Oh well, I don't mind the inconsistencies much.
Well, I suppose it depends on whether we're talking about "Bajoran" as a race or as a national and political identity. We know there are colonies of the Bajoran race spread over a number of star systems, as refugees fled in the build up to (or the wake of) Cardassian annexation. Dreon VIII, the Valo system worlds, Free Haven, Volnar, Prophet's Landing, Golana - all of these were said to have Bajoran settlements. However, most of these weren't politically aligned to Bajor (and wouldn't want to be, since they fled to escape Cardassian oppression). Prior to the annexation, Bajor apparently didn't colonise. Even its habitable moons were left untouched, which would never be the case when considering an expansionist race like humans. Bajorans seemed to be self-sufficient on their lush garden world and were simply uninterested in the wider galaxy. There are a few odd exceptions: We know Golana was eventually colonized prior to annexation (but not why) and some sources claim Prophet's Landing was too (for religious reasons?) but other than that there was just Bajor. The colonies are mostly refugee settlements (even the names sometimes suggest it, I think: "Free Haven" must surely be a post-annexation colony).
I guess it depends how many of the Bajoran colonies aligned with the birthworld following liberation, and even then, I think "Bajoran territory" would only cover particular planets or parts of planets, not whole systems. I always assumed "Bajoran space" was the star system centred on B'hava'el (Bajor's sun), and nothing more, though Bajor would also claim whatever outposts and colonies outside that which wished to reaffiliate.
I recall an episode of DS9 where the Dominion bragged to Sisko about wiping out a Bajoran colony that was set up on the other side of the wormhole. So I always got the feeling the Bajorans were busy "empire-building" by placing as many of their people on as many far-off places as they can.
But rather than create their own interstellar empire for nafarious reasons, I always figured that the Cardassian occupation taught them that it would be unwise to keep all of your eggs in one basket, so to speak. This way, by scattering their people all over, if anything happened to Bajor Prime, the race and culture will still live on elsewhere.
Because of this attitude, I surmised that Bajoran space was pretty extensive in the post Cardassian occupation era. That it was much more than just their solar system.
Sean
But rather than create their own interstellar empire for nafarious reasons, I always figured that the Cardassian occupation taught them that it would be unwise to keep all of your eggs in one basket, so to speak. This way, by scattering their people all over, if anything happened to Bajor Prime, the race and culture will still live on elsewhere.
Because of this attitude, I surmised that Bajoran space was pretty extensive in the post Cardassian occupation era. That it was much more than just their solar system.
Sean
Good point. I overlooked New Bajor in my post above. Yes, that does seem evidence that the post-occupation Bajor had newly embraced a policy of colonization.
not trek in general, you can narrow it to ds9. qo'nos, the centre of the klingon empire is mere hours at warp away (the house of quark), so is earth (homefront, paradise lost), ferenginar a bit further but not by much (countless ferengi episodes), and cardassia, the badlands, and the romulan empire must be right there in the bajoran solar system.
Why? Elsewhere in modern Trek, we learn that ships are getting faster. It only stands to reason that locations that previously were days or weeks apart tend to be much closer to each other now.
As for specifics, nothing in "House of Quark" suggests that the Klingon homeworld would really be mere hours away. Quark and Rom have been gone without notice before; people wouldn't miss him even weeks into an absence. The whole B plot aboard the station is about idle hours anyway, and features nothing establishing the passage of time.
Nor does "Paradise Lost" suggest mere hours of separation. The Defiant is launched towards Earth when Sisko calls Kira. The ship meets the Lakota some time later. We don't know how much later; enough to gain Sisko access to Leyton's secret files, get Sisko thrown in jail and busted out. Might be days, might be weeks.
And in any case, the Defiant doesn't reach Earth. She merely reaches the point where the Lakota tries to stop her. Which probably isn't quite halfway, but not all the way through Earth, either; these Excelsiors are supposed to be fast ships, while the Defiant never was anywhere near the top ten.
The Badlands supposedly are more or less next door to Bajor, which is why DS9 is teeming with Maquis activity. As for the distance to Cardassia, "Tribunal" establishes it to be really, really short - but there's nothing wrong with that, and everything in DS9 actually supports the idea of Bajor and Cardassia being neighboring systems.
Timo Saloniemi
As for specifics, nothing in "House of Quark" suggests that the Klingon homeworld would really be mere hours away. Quark and Rom have been gone without notice before; people wouldn't miss him even weeks into an absence. The whole B plot aboard the station is about idle hours anyway, and features nothing establishing the passage of time.
Nor does "Paradise Lost" suggest mere hours of separation. The Defiant is launched towards Earth when Sisko calls Kira. The ship meets the Lakota some time later. We don't know how much later; enough to gain Sisko access to Leyton's secret files, get Sisko thrown in jail and busted out. Might be days, might be weeks.
And in any case, the Defiant doesn't reach Earth. She merely reaches the point where the Lakota tries to stop her. Which probably isn't quite halfway, but not all the way through Earth, either; these Excelsiors are supposed to be fast ships, while the Defiant never was anywhere near the top ten.
The Badlands supposedly are more or less next door to Bajor, which is why DS9 is teeming with Maquis activity. As for the distance to Cardassia, "Tribunal" establishes it to be really, really short - but there's nothing wrong with that, and everything in DS9 actually supports the idea of Bajor and Cardassia being neighboring systems.
Timo Saloniemi
they don't say anything about the time, but i guess every human realizes if a great deal of time has passed, hair, beard, and nails never stop growing. so do ferengi, i think. it didn't feel like a long time from quarks abduction until his arrival on qo'nos, and rom also arrived almost immediately after the bad klingon realized he had to change tactics.
Rom could have been caught simultaneously with Quark, though. And the Ferengi apparently don't have facial hair. They have ear hair, which seems to grow very slowly and is carefully and lovingly cultivated by Grand Nagus Zek...
So even if Quark were shanghaied drugged rather than in stasis, he probably wouldn't show any signs of having grown a couple of days older. He never does in those other episodes where he spends time in uncivilized captivity, either: "Jem'Hadar" or "Little Green Men".
Timo Saloniemi
So even if Quark were shanghaied drugged rather than in stasis, he probably wouldn't show any signs of having grown a couple of days older. He never does in those other episodes where he spends time in uncivilized captivity, either: "Jem'Hadar" or "Little Green Men".
Timo Saloniemi
I was under the impression that Bajor was 8 hours away only because one can't engage the Warp Drive within a star system.
Whereas, according to Martok, his fleet had long voyage from the homeworld to DS9 in "Way of the Warrior" Probably taking almost a week when one looks at the Star Trek Star Charts maps.
Whereas, according to Martok, his fleet had long voyage from the homeworld to DS9 in "Way of the Warrior" Probably taking almost a week when one looks at the Star Trek Star Charts maps.
One can; the Defiant almost always goes to warp immediately after clearing the docking clamps of DS9 (unless she's heading into the wormhole).
It's only in a single episode, "By Inferno's Light", that there is dialogue to the effect that warping towards Bajor's star would be "risky". It's done nevertheless, and it succeeds just fine.
Then again, Bajor is known for its nasty "space weather", such as in "Invasive Procedures" or "Things Past". Perhaps subspace weather phenomena sometimes make warp difficult in that system?
Anyway, it's either two or six hours from DS9 to Bajor. While this might sound like a continuity error or a discrepancy, it actually makes perfect sense. Say, two hours from the orbit of DS9 to the orbit of Bajor, and then two hours from the orbit of Bajor to the star, and then two more hours from the star back to the orbit of Bajor. If DS9 and Bajor lie on the same side of the star, then the runabout does the first two-hour stretch only. If they lie on the opposite sides, then the runabout has to do all three, giving the six hours...
Timo Saloniemi
what? the house of d'ghor and the house of kozak each send the family-bird of prey to ds9 to pick up another ferengi simultaneously? why would they? first d'ghor ventured to ds9, and instructed quark what to say, there was no reason to pick up rom at this time. then grilka pops in and abducts quark. d'ghor realizes that his strategy backfired, and only then has a reason to bring in rom to prove that kozak had no honorable death. 3 roundtrips so far to ds9, probably a 4th to bring the ferengi back, maybe a 5th for kozak at the beginning. now do the maths how close qo'nos must be, the epsiode does not cover a year or so. also note the progress of the story, kozak dies, shortly afterwards quark tells the investigating odo, bashir and a number of spectators the outrageous story. bar reopens, good business, odo drops in and tells quark who kozak was and suggests to change the story, after the bar closes, quark still pleased about the good day walks to his quarters, and encounters d'ghor. the same day. the secondary story suggests it too, keiko is depressed because she closed the school, when we see them again, (directly after the quark/d'ghor talk) miles tries to cheer her up with a diner. the same day. would you wait several weeks to comfort your wife?
i said bird of prey because it's the smallest klingon ship we have ever seen, that has certainly no stasis pods. yet, an expensive item of hardware, not many families on earth today can afford the equivalent, say a titanic-sized ocean liner, and kozak's wealth was pretty much gone. he couldn't even pay for his drinks. well, the writing for ds9 was a little sloppy.
"Ventured"? Why wouldn't he have been there all along?
Remember that he was actively scheming to get Kozak out of the way. He's taking over the House of Kozak - but he has to get rid of Kozak himself somehow, too. Quark saves him the trouble, but since we agree that D'Ghor is not prescient, he wouldn't be counting on Quark. So he'd probably be tagging along Kozak, and a trip to DS9 would be an excellent opportunity to arrange for a little accident.
But he would have a reason to eliminate all witnesses from the very start - and he very well knows Rom would be one of the two. If he didn't kill or kidnap Rom, he'd be an idiot. The only real question is why he chose the latter rather than the former. And the answer is pretty obvious: D'Ghor is a scheming, Ferengi-like coward. That's his MO, as well established in the episode. He needs to be ashamed into slaying Quark in the end, which should be telling us enough.
So, not necessarily more than one round trip: D'Ghor and Grilka get from DS9 to Qo'noS in two ships, each carrying a Ferengi, and then Grilka gives the two Ferengi a lift home, perhaps a few weeks later.
Certainly, if I had to prepare a house-sized surprise for her first!
What grounds would we have for believing that stasis pods would be rare or expensive? The Voyager, the smallest UFP starship known, can produce hundreds of those at the drop of a hat; DS9 has a morgue amply equipped with them. They're probably what these people use instead of a fridge, too - and since Klingons prefer live food, their ships would certainly have plenty of stasis capacity.
Well, much of Star Trek writing stinks. But it can be made to work nevertheless, sometimes by later writers patching the holes left by the preceding ones, sometimes by the audience doing the work.
Timo Saloniemi
Saquist
Commodore
While not "canon" this star chart might help.
In the episode of DS9 where Sisko is assembling the 3 fleets , one of those fleets are protecting the Earth and home sectors of the Federation and it never reaches 375 which is logically enroute to DS9. I believe they say the mine field will be taken down in 3 days...
The relative positions of Bajor, SB 375, Cardassia and Ferenginar on the above map are basically canonical, since they are shown on a graphic serving as the wall map of the DS9 "War Room".
Where Earth would lie in relation to those is unclear, though; the "upper right" direction is just conjecture partially based on the curvature of the Cardassian border that's also canonically represented on those graphics. That is, the idea is that Cardassia should sit in the middle of its little bubble empire - but the old war with Earth has carved part of that bubble empire away, all the way to Cardassia's very doorstep.
Timo Saloniemi
Where Earth would lie in relation to those is unclear, though; the "upper right" direction is just conjecture partially based on the curvature of the Cardassian border that's also canonically represented on those graphics. That is, the idea is that Cardassia should sit in the middle of its little bubble empire - but the old war with Earth has carved part of that bubble empire away, all the way to Cardassia's very doorstep.
Timo Saloniemi
I was primiarlly thinking of a trip Keiko took to bajor for some civilian reason or another. It might be okay for the Defiant and other "military" vessels to engaged the warp drive within the system, but not civilian transports.
Something about the Denorious Belt, maybe?
And depending on your mode of transport. I'm guessing most Bajoran civilian vesels can't do warp 8.
