bajoran militia ranks

[BlackFire3]

i'm planing on writing a fan fic that takes place initially at ds9 a few months after the war (series) ended. and to do that properly, i was wondering if anyone had any idea of the bajoran militia ranking system. it would also be very helpful to include what jobs were given to each rank. for the obvious reason the "major" rank is self explanatory in what tasks would be given to it.
also what's the rank above major as i plan on have kira promoted to be in command of the station.

thanks in advance to all who're able to help.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Bajoran Militia is an army. It has your standard Army style ranks.

With one variation: the Bajoran term for a Lieutenant Colonel (i.e. the rank directly above Major) is, according to the script for "The Siege", instead called 'Field Colonel.'

Note that this was never actually spoken onscreen. Steven Weber's character in that episode was simply called 'Colonel Day.' The script outline identifies him as a Field Colonel (and also gives his full name, Day Kannu). The canonicity of this is therefore debatable, but I see no reason not to believe it.

Kira, AFAIK, wore the insignia of a full Colonel in DS9's final season. The same as other full Colonels we see on the show, such as Lenaris Holem. But NOT the same as the insignia Day wore. So apparently Kira was promoted two steps in rank.

Here is a list of Bajoran ranks and their accompanying insignias.

 

[T'Girl]

With one variation: the Bajoran term for a Lieutenant Colonel (i.e. the rank directly above Major) is, according to the script for "The Siege", instead called 'Field Colonel.'

There's a problem there, with modern (Earth) military insignia, silver insignia indicates a higher rank than gold insignia.

So Kira's gold (Colonel) insignia would be subordinate to Day's silver (Field Colonel) insignia.

Bajor's militia ranks might not include the rank of "Lieutenant" Colonel.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There's a problem there, with modern (Earth) military insignia, silver insignia indicates a higher rank than gold insignia.

So they do it differently on Bajor. No biggie.

 

[Timo]

The canonicity of this is therefore debatable, but I see no reason not to believe it.

OTOH, I don't see any reason to believe it. Scripts are full of silly misspellings, misconceptions and other things that passed the Paramount continuity hawks because they knew the script was of no significance - only the things that end up in the filmed product are of interest.

What possible point would there be in Bajorans having a weird deviation from the Army system? It's not as if they could really have a rank named "Major" to begin with - it must be the Universal Translator deciding that the system is close enough to the Army one to get such a translation. And in that case, the Bajorans can't lack Lieutenant Colonel: the rank one step above the one that gets translated Major is automatically going to be translated as Lieutenant Colonel!

Kira, AFAIK, wore the insignia of a full Colonel in DS9's final season. The same as other full Colonels we see on the show, such as Lenaris Holem. But NOT the same as the insignia Day wore. So apparently Kira was promoted two steps in rank.

Isn't the significantly more logical assumption that Kira was promoted one step (the default position) whereas all the other Colonels wearing the same insignia were Lieutenant Colonels just like Kira, save for Day who was a full Colonel?

This assumption does not needlessly deviate from the Army pattern, is not contradicted by anything, and gives Kira a more logical career path.

Plus, Kira is later seen wearing Commander pips while dressing up as a Starfleeter; Commander is the same as Lieutenant Colonel, and it would be pretty absurd to think that Kira would choose to wear pips that "demoted" her when going to meet the Cardassians, her old enemies and now her supposed subordinates and pupils in terrorism.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pavonis]

What possible point would there be in Bajorans having a weird deviation from the Army system? It's not as if they could really have a rank named "Major" to begin with - it must be the Universal Translator deciding that the system is close enough to the Army one to get such a translation. And in that case, the Bajorans can't lack Lieutenant Colonel: the rank one step above the one that gets translated Major is automatically going to be translated as Lieutenant Colonel!

There are 10 officer grades in the U.S. Army. What if the Bajoran military has 11 officer grades, or only 9? Must the next step up from major be lieutenant colonel then?

What if the Bajorans have two grades of "colonel" - a "field colonel" that commands troops in the field (on a planet), and a "colonel" that commands ships?

Or suppose that, from the Bajoran point of view, a Starfleet captain is equivalent to a Bajoran general. In that case, would the Bajoran militia authorize one of their colonels being made a Starfleet captain, especially one that was only recently promoted to that rank?

 

[Timo]

If the Bajorans have two grades of Colonel, then they are the same as the US Army, and the designations should be the same...

If the Bajorans have extra ranks, the scale could be stretched at either end; it would be pretty silly to insert in-between ranks if there is no objective way of defining the exact slot where the extra rank should be inserted. That is, there is no universal definition of what "Major" means, save for it being one step above Captain and one step below Lieutenant Colonel. It's not possible even on today's Earth to have a look at an officer's posting and declare "that one must be a Major, because he does job X and commands Y number of people". And conversely, a Major may have a desk job, command varying numbers of men and vehicles depending on the nature and intensity of the conflict at hand, or be in charge of individual or multiple aircraft or installations - and still lack any exotic definer to his rank.

In short, there is no known reason to believe the Bajorans would have the exotic rank of Field Colonel; there is no a priori reason to believe in the existence of exotic ranks in general; and for a rare once, all onscreen evidence is in perfect support of the default assumption of the simplest possible analogy to today's world.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

The canonicity of this is therefore debatable, but I see no reason not to believe it.

OTOH, I don't see any reason to believe it. Scripts are full of silly misspellings, misconceptions and other things that passed the Paramount continuity hawks because they knew the script was of no significance - only the things that end up in the filmed product are of interest.

What possible point would there be in Bajorans having a weird deviation from the Army system? It's not as if they could really have a rank named "Major" to begin with - it must be the Universal Translator deciding that the system is close enough to the Army one to get such a translation. And in that case, the Bajorans can't lack Lieutenant Colonel: the rank one step above the one that gets translated Major is automatically going to be translated as Lieutenant Colonel!

Kira, AFAIK, wore the insignia of a full Colonel in DS9's final season. The same as other full Colonels we see on the show, such as Lenaris Holem. But NOT the same as the insignia Day wore. So apparently Kira was promoted two steps in rank.

Isn't the significantly more logical assumption that Kira was promoted one step (the default position) whereas all the other Colonels wearing the same insignia were Lieutenant Colonels just like Kira, save for Day who was a full Colonel?

This assumption does not needlessly deviate from the Army pattern, is not contradicted by anything, and gives Kira a more logical career path.

Plus, Kira is later seen wearing Commander pips while dressing up as a Starfleeter; Commander is the same as Lieutenant Colonel, and it would be pretty absurd to think that Kira would choose to wear pips that "demoted" her when going to meet the Cardassians, her old enemies and now her supposed subordinates and pupils in terrorism.

Timo Saloniemi

One possibility is that given that she was the XO of DSN, the maximum rank she could have been given due to that posting was Commander. UNlikely perhaps.

 

[Timo]

I rather doubt Kira ever actually entered Starfleet. The uniform may well have been a mere costume to impress the Cardassians; illegal, possibly, but a convenience that Sisko would fully approve of. It's unclear whether Kira's mission to Cardassia had any official approval of any of the parties involved, either... Rules and regulations would not play much of a role there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

Wasn't it more or less stated, that was the case. Whilst she wore the uniform she was considered to a Satarfleet representive rather tha na Bajoran one

 

[Timo]

Well, she was said to have to power to "speak on behalf of the Federation". But I went and checked the transcripts - it's explicitly said that she was given a Starfleet commission, not just a Starfleet mandate and uniform. So her real Starfleet rank apparently was Commander.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

Perhaps whilst her Bajoran rank might have been equal to a Starfleet Captain. Prior to receiving thant rank she and all Bajoran Military officers would have had to do some sort of course at the Academy. (Once the Bajran Military had been absorbed in Starfleet following Bajor's Admission into the Federation)

 

[Timo]

I just think it's simpler to take Kira's rank at face value. If she's one step above Major there, everything fits nice and clean. And nowhere in DS9 do we learn of Bajoran ranks that would diverge from the US Army ones - except when the honorary rank of Navarch is introduced, and then a big deal is made of it being nonstandard. (That one comes from the classic Greek military, btw, and in every way appears to be something added to the upper end of the scale, being comparable to Admiral today.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[tighr]

I find it interesting that sometimes the universal translator chooses to translate ranks into English equivalents (Lieutenant, Major, Colonel) and sometimes it leaves them alone (Glinn, Gul, Legate).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Perhaps whilst her Bajoran rank might have been equal to a Starfleet Captain. Prior to receiving thant rank she and all Bajoran Military officers would have had to do some sort of course at the Academy. (Once the Bajran Military had been absorbed in Starfleet following Bajor's Admission into the Federation)

It may, or may not, make a difference that Kira apparently did not actually come up through the ranks as a normal officer would. She was a resistance fighter who was given the rank of Major flat-out.

There is a Bajoran military academy, but I highly doubt Kira attended. Surely it didn't exist during the occupation, it would have had to have been established afterward. Which was relatively recent.

 

[Timo]

I find it interesting that sometimes the universal translator chooses to translate ranks into English equivalents (Lieutenant, Major, Colonel) and sometimes it leaves them alone (Glinn, Gul, Legate).

We might interpret that as meaning that one system is at least roughly analogous to the Earth militaries, while the other is fundamentally different from it - not just in the number of rank steps, but in the very nature of what the ranks stand for, how (or if) one progresses from one to another, etc.

That is, the Ferengi system might not be one of military rank, but rather something out of the corporate hierarchy; and the Cardassian system would not be limited to military ranks but be a blend of military and political status, as the treatment of "Legate" already more or less indicates.

Another aspect of intrigue is the difference between navy and army ranks. Why do Klingons have Generals rather than Admirals? Does that tell us about an emphasis in ground warfare or what? Might be, given how the Bajorans also seem to be a planetbound power that never did much in the way of space adventurism; their warships appear to be troop transports for the most part. And the Tal'Shiar army ranks might again emphasize that these people are foreigners to the starship environment.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Another aspect of intrigue is the difference between navy and army ranks. Why do Klingons have Generals rather than Admirals?

Actually, they have both. A Klingon Admiral appeared on ENT.

 

[Timo]

There is a Bajoran military academy, but I highly doubt Kira attended. Surely it didn't exist during the occupation, it would have had to have been established afterward. Which was relatively recent.

Perhaps we are to believe that Bajor had no military caste prior to the occupation, and that the militia was thrown together in a hurry without historical precedent.

Otherwise one would think that the survivors of the military caste would get precedent for all commissions, and Kira, an artisan by caste, would be left out. Even if the Cardassians took to executing every Bajoran soldier, the fact that the caste status is rigidly inherited would probably mean that at the time of liberation, there'd still be thousands of young men and women who never fought in their lives (and thus never attracted Cardassian attention), but who would have dibs for all officer positions nevertheless.

The lack of soldiers might go together with the apparent lack of space travelers and explorers; the caste system seems to have its lacunae, and the more dynamic professions would indeed probably be disruptive to the incredible stability of the Bajoran society, the one spanning hundreds of millennia.

Actually, they have both. A Klingon Admiral appeared on ENT.

And Starfleet has Colonels (or then an Admiral named Cornell West). The interesting thing is that Generals are seen commanding starship formations, while Admirals lurk somewhere in the deep background. Why the imbalance in the dual system? Perhaps because the UFP so immensely values starships over infantry, whereas Klingons place a big emphasis on infantry action even in space warfare.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is a Bajoran military academy, but I highly doubt Kira attended. Surely it didn't exist during the occupation, it would have had to have been established afterward. Which was relatively recent.

Perhaps we are to believe that Bajor had no military caste prior to the occupation, and that the militia was thrown together in a hurry without historical precedent.

Or that the Cardassians left the Bajoran military in shambles. That seems equally likely.

 

[Timo]

It's possible that the Bajoran military benefited from the occupation more than it suffered from it. After all, we witness warp-capable ships in the hands of Bajoran militia and independent freedom fighters alike - ships that appear to be of Cardassian design and origin, as they are seen in Cardassian hands on occasion and sport the classic Cardassian color scheme. It might rather be the Cardassian military that is in shambles at the end of the occupation, leaving lots of useful hardware behind (including the titular space station).

It is interesting to note that Bajorans have their unique type of personal weapon, with sidearm and rifle designs basically never seen used by any other species or organization. Are those things of Bajoran design and manufacture? Or do they simply represent a larger-than-usual foreign purchase, giving the militia a more unified armament than the ragtag independent freedom fighters who in "Shakaar" sported an assortment of "international" weapons.

The existence of a Bajoran weapons industry immediately after the occupation would be quite intriguing. On the other hand, perhaps Cardassia just took over a prewar industry and allowed it to continue producing (inferior) weaponry for collaborators?

Timo Saloniemi