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bajoran militia ranks

thanks for all your help and opinions, guess i'll just run off the american army ranking system. as far as kira's promotion is concerned, i'll just work around it by not mentioning what she's getting promoted to.

i still have other things to work out for the story, but once i finish, i'll post it here for all to hopefully enjoy.
again thanks to everyone who responded.
 
It might rather be the Cardassian military that is in shambles at the end of the occupation, leaving lots of useful hardware behind (including the titular space station).

As we saw, the Cardassians generally did not leave usable hardware behind. What they did leave, they either wrecked (DS9, Bajor) or booby-trapped (Empok Nor).
 
the Cardassian system would not be limited to military ranks but be a blend of military and political status, as the treatment of "Legate" already more or less indicates.

Actually, for those who don't already know, legate is a real world rank. It was used in Ancient Rome where it could mean either governor or general and in some cases both. During the Republic a legate would be directly under the consul (ie the head of government) in the legionary chain of command.

In other words, the UT might assign the word "legate" to senior Cardassian officers who command large forces, oversee civil government or both. It does seem to fit. And on that line of thinking may very well have been a better title for Dukat.

On a slight tangent, why is that people assume that a fictional military force in the future--especially an alien one in this case--must follow modern day American military practices. It just seems odd to me--especially when people act like the fictional military is wrong in some way because they don't follow the modern day system to the letter.

There is no need for a rank between major and colonel just because there is one today. If one studies the history of those ranks, they all evolved to fit the needs of the early modern army and just sort of hung around. The colonel was the captain of the column of soldiers as they marched. The lieutenant colonel was his deputy who commanded when he was off with the general planning and plotting. The major (originally sergeant major--but still an officer) was responsible for the administrative duties of a company. The same system was duplicated at army headquarters in the general, lieutenant general and (sergeant) major general.

I would love to see a fictional military use the early modern rank system where units are essentially the personal property of their officer and are thrown together as needed. Or even better the roman paradigm where, at least in the republic, the ranks effectively went sergeant (centurion), colonel (military tribune) and governor (proconsul) or president (consul).

I mostly say this to see the exploding heads when this system is compared to the modern military and the complaints fly when President Roslin personally leads troops into battle or Captain Sisko is given command over Captain Picard because Sisko lobbied with the admirals--seniority be damned.
 
why is that people assume that a fictional military force in the future--especially an alien one in this case--must follow modern day American military practices.

It's not "people" who appear to follow those in Star Trek. It's the Universal Translator, which puts the word "Major" in Kira's mouth when she describes her position within the Bajoran militia system. For that matter, it puts the word "militia" in there, too - and probably even "Bajoran" and "Kira".

If one studies the history of those ranks, they all evolved

...And kept on evolving. So there currently is nothing left to identify "Major" or tell it apart from "Colonel" save for the fact that the current system treats them as two rungs on the rank ladder, separated by one further rung called "Lieutenant Colonel".

Nothing about Kira's job yells "Major" as such. What she usually does could be done by a Lieutenant or a Lieutenant General alike, were she to be employed by the US Army. It's just that she isn't. She's doing fictional space duties that on one hand have more strategic value than the US President holds in his fingertips when fiddling with a certain briefcase, and on the other are more mundane than the daily maintenance of a 5-ton truck.

So the only reason Kira is a "Major" for Sisko may be that she stands on the fourth rung of the Bajoran rank ladder. That rank may be known to the Bajorans as "Fourth Naysayer", literally, as historically the duty of Bajoran officers was to tone down the power-mad orders of their absolute superiors; or something like "Servant to General's Advisor", which is what the role became fifty thousand years later. But the UT doesn't bother with such nuances, which would be futile anyway because the definition has kept on evolving and currently the rank reads as "That Who Tried to Grab Postwar Power But Failed to Attain Colonel and Was Too Good for Lieutenant and Too Controversial for Captain". :devil:

That said, I'd love to take the "Roman" ranks of Cardassia and Romulus at face value, their curious English translations literally meaning e.g. that a Romulan Centurion does the very same thing a Roman one did (commanding one cohort or another, with a better or more prestigious cohort indicating higher standing) and isn't just a fancy way of saying "Sergeant". Whenever other cultural references slip in, such as the Romulan "Sub-Lieutenant", they would be taken at face value, too, closely approximating that other culture. And whenever we get something alien, like Glinn, it is there to tell us that this particular part of the Cardassian system does not follow the old Roman model that the other ranks might suggest.

As we saw, the Cardassians generally did not leave usable hardware behind.

But I think we saw the reverse. In their confusion, they did leave DS9 behind, either with the intention of reclaiming it ASAP, or because they didn't really plan for defeat and had little idea what to do. They left Garak behind, and he soon became a Bajoran asset, too. Both assets could have been programmed to kill their new masters brutally and efficiently, or worse, but the Cardassians fumbled it and Terok Nor's feeble attempt at evicting the Bajorans in "Civil Defense" was thrwarted.

Against that, it doesn't seem implausible at all that Tahna Los in "Past Prologue" or General Krim in "The Siege" commanded abandoned Cardassian warp transports, or that the other triangular ship type seen in "Ensign Ro", "A Man Alone" et al. was also of Cardassian make. We could of course alternately think that the Cardassian convoy in "Rules of Engagement" utilized these two ship types because Cardassia was depending on Bajor for its warp transports...

Timo Saloniemi
 
In other words, the UT might assign the word "legate" to senior Cardassian officers who command large forces, oversee civil government or both. It does seem to fit. And on that line of thinking may very well have been a better title for Dukat.
After his takeover of the Cardassian government and alliance with the Dominion in Ties of Blood and Water, Dukat intentionally kept the "Gul" title instead of claiming the "Legate" title because he thought it sounded better.
 
In other words, the UT might assign the word "legate" to senior Cardassian officers who command large forces, oversee civil government or both. It does seem to fit. And on that line of thinking may very well have been a better title for Dukat.
After his takeover of the Cardassian government and alliance with the Dominion in Ties of Blood and Water, Dukat intentionally kept the "Gul" title instead of claiming the "Legate" title because he thought it sounded better.

It was a bit of PR. It makes him seem humble, and untainted by the political/military elite that were responsible for the shambles that was the Cardassian government from the end of the occupation until they joined the Dominion.

It's like "Colonel" Gaddafi.
 
Or any number of "First Citizens" or "Protectors" or "Comrades" out there. "Gul" Dukat at least is a tad less pretentious than those, because this ex-soldier actually attained said rank within the formal limits of the military in which he served; Gaddafi, while stopping short of appointing himself General, never actually received a rank higher than Lieutenant in a formal military context.

It would appear that Dukat in the brave new Cardassia had somewhat more power than any of the Legates of the previous political setup. Him refusing to be called Legate would make this a bit more explicit to the masses...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Hi guys I know this is an old post and I apologise for that

What we need to remember is that when Kira was a Major, she was XO on DS9 however after Worf came along she was no longer XO on the Defiant, so she was confirmed there as equal to a Lieutenant Commander, so then by season 7 I doubt that they would have promoted her 2 steps, so she would be equal to a Commander, as she said, she was just keeping Sisko’s chair warm for him
 
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The Bajoran Militia is an army. It has your standard Army style ranks.

I'm not familiar with canon but I get the impression that the Bajoran Militia started off as resistance movements then got incorporated into the mainstream Bajoran society much like the various French resistance movements when they were integrated into the French Forces of the Interior (FFI) during WW2.
 
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My take on the Bajoran Militia Rank (with Starfleet comparison) is:
Ensign (Ensign)
Second Lieutenant (Lieutenant JG)
First Lieutenant (Lieutenant)
Captain (Lt. Commander)
Major (Commander)
Colonel (Captain)

Kira took a back seat to Worf on the Defiant was because that's what Sisko wanted, to give Worf more command experience onboard the Starfleet ship, whilst on the Bajoran station he was under the Major. Then when she got her commission in S7 it was only a Commander because having her being equal to Sisko would be a little odd.

But that's just my take on it.
 
My take on the Bajoran Militia Rank (with Starfleet comparison) is:
Ensign (Ensign)
Second Lieutenant (Lieutenant JG)
First Lieutenant (Lieutenant)
Captain (Lt. Commander)
Major (Commander)
Colonel (Captain)

Kira took a back seat to Worf on the Defiant was because that's what Sisko wanted, to give Worf more command experience onboard the Starfleet ship, whilst on the Bajoran station he was under the Major. Then when she got her commission in S7 it was only a Commander because having her being equal to Sisko would be a little odd.

But that's just my take on it.

I would say it’s more like
2nd Lieutenant (Ensign)
1st Lieutenant (Lieutenant JG)
Captain (Lieutenant)
Major (Lieutenant Commander)
Lt/Field Colonel (Commander)
Colonel (Captain)
 
Latara was stated as being an Ensign within the Militia, there was also a Bajoran extra "Dramatis Personae" that was credited as 'Ensign', so the rank is established whilst the likes of Lieutenant Colonel has not been mentioned and Kira went straight from Major to Colonel (with Odo making a point of calling her 'Colonel' in "Image in the Sand" and not 'Lieutenant Colonel', seeing as how he was making a point about her promotion).
 
Latara was stated as being an Ensign within the Militia, there was also a Bajoran extra "Dramatis Personae" that was credited as 'Ensign', so the rank is established whilst the likes of Lieutenant Colonel has not been mentioned and Kira went straight from Major to Colonel (with Odo making a point of calling her 'Colonel' in "Image in the Sand" and not 'Lieutenant Colonel', seeing as how he was making a point about her promotion).

But don’t forget traditional Military procedure, in Starfleet, Lieutenant Commanders are often just referred to as Commander, I.e ‘Commander Data’, ‘Commander Worf’, ‘Commander Dax’, ‘Commander La Forge’ so although Kira was being called Colonel, we don’t know enough about Militia ranks to be able to determine this fully
 
"Ensign" could be either way. I've heard of it as a junior officer's rank in some units, cavalry back in the horse days I think. But I've also heard of it as a job title, the junior officer carrying the unit's flag.

Lieutenant colonels in armies are called "colonel" except when one is being very formal. Just like major generals and lieutenant generals are called "general" and 2nd lieutenants are called "lieutenant".
 
As no doubt argued upthread, claiming that Kira was a full Colonel would go against her simultaneously being a mere Commander in Starfleet. What possible reason would there be for Starfleet to give Kira a rank beneath her status, when the whole intent was to give her legitimacy and influence?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Sisko was a Commander when given command of DS9 and retained that position even after the wormhole was discovered and what it would mean for the AQ, so Kira being issued a commission of Commander would carry with it a lot of clout she was after all going in to provide advice, logistics, and organisation of guerrilla tactics, not going in to lead the Cardassian resistance.
 
But don’t forget traditional Military procedure, in Starfleet, Lieutenant Commanders are often just referred to as Commander, I.e ‘Commander Data’, ‘Commander Worf’, ‘Commander Dax’, ‘Commander La Forge’ so although Kira was being called Colonel, we don’t know enough about Militia ranks to be able to determine this fully
With only one exception in Trek, any lieutenant commander has been referred to by their full rank at least once (I'm sure there was also an instance in which Lt. Commander La Forge was called Lieutenant La Forge, though I'd need to double check that). Only Chakotay, who had the provisional bars of lieutenant commander was never called this, only addressed as 'Commander' throughout.

As with many aspects of Trekdom, there's not really enough evidence one way of the other to say just what the Bajoran rank structure is like, just like the Romulan and Cardassian militaries.
 
Even if we accept that Starfleet's ranks are the same as modern-day naval ones (plausible assuming Starfleet has evolved from the present-day US Navy), it is highly unlikely that the rank system of the Bajoran militia would correspond neatly to the army ranks (including all the sub-gradations of first, second, senior, junior, vice, chief, etc) of a planet they'd never encountered before. Either they've deliberately adopted human nomenclature since making contact with the Federation or the Universal Translator is taking a lot of liberties.

The words don't mean the same things even within Earth's armed forces - note how a junior lieutenant in the navy is equal to a senior lieutenant in the army, or how an army captain is three grades below a navy captain, or how an air marshal is one grade below a general and an admiral.
 
Even if we accept that Starfleet's ranks are the same as modern-day naval ones (plausible assuming Starfleet has evolved from the present-day US Navy), it is highly unlikely that the rank system of the Bajoran militia would correspond neatly to the army ranks (including all the sub-gradations of first, second, senior, junior, vice, chief, etc) of a planet they'd never encountered before. Either they've deliberately adopted human nomenclature since making contact with the Federation or the Universal Translator is taking a lot of liberties.

The words don't mean the same things even within Earth's armed forces - note how a junior lieutenant in the navy is equal to a senior lieutenant in the army, or how an army captain is three grades below a navy captain, or how an air marshal is one grade below a general and an admiral.
To be fair, an Air Marshal is still a flag rank, equivalent to Lieutenant General or Vice Admiral, next rank up would be an Air Chief Marshal which would be the 4 star version
 
To be fair, an Air Marshal is still a flag rank, equivalent to Lieutenant General or Vice Admiral, next rank up would be an Air Chief Marshal which would be the 4 star version

Yes, but to line up properly it should be Air Rear Marshal - Air Vice Marshal - Air Marshal - Marshal of the Air Force.
Alternatively the navy ranks should be Vice Admiral - Admiral - Chief Admiral - Admiral of the Fleet.
 
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