Bajoran/Human Hybrids

[Dingo]

Does anyone know, if in any of the series where Bajorans were featured, if there was ever any complications or issues associated with Bajoran/human pregnancies? I ask because one such pregnancy will be featured in a Voyager fanfic I'm working on.

The Voyager fic in question is a lower-decks centered fic where Tal Celes and an original human character (*dodges anti-Stu grenades, and states that he took great pains NOT to make him a Harry Stu) eventually conceive a child.

I pretty much only had Kira Nerys' pregnancy with Kirayoshi O'Brien to go on for canon information, but that baby was a transferred pregnancy as opposed to a conceived pregnancy. I'm no doctor, but I can see some complications possibly forming (i.e. the discrepancy of Bajoran gestation period (5 mos.) and the Human gestation period (9 mos)). Any ideas?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I just want to know what kind of nose the offspring would get.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

I don't see it as much of a problem. Star Trek has always had races that are very similar procreating. Romulans can conceive with Vulcans; Vulcans can conceive with humans, Betazoids can conceive with humans; Klingons and Trill have difficulty, etc.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Romulans and Vulcans are the same species.

I'm pretty positive Cardassians and Bajorans are as well, or are damned close (same genus), because there's just no sense in Tora Ziyal otherwise.

Vulcan/human and Betazoid/human hybrids are the result of seriously heavy genetic engineering.

 

[captcalhoun]

I just want to know what kind of nose the offspring would get.

bajoran style. if a half-Vulcan gets the ears eyebrows and green blood, and a half-Betazoid gets the dark eyes or a half-Klingon gets half a crest, stands to reason a half-Bajoran gets the nose.

 

[Dingo]

That's what I figured in terms of apperance. I also figured gestation might have some inherent differences too. I know in the case of Tom Parris and B'Elanna Torres' baby there was some degree of guesswork as to the gestation time of the fetus. I figure the same might be true of a Bajoran/human hybrid.

Let's not also forget that a Bajoran's heart is mirrored along a horizontal as opposed to a vertical one like a Terran heart, so it could be probable some cardiac developmental issues in the fetus could manifest themselves. At any rate it would be a very interesting dialogue for Tal Celes and my OC to have with the doctor regarding their baby. Would that be plausible?

Of course this future baby is gonna have his mom's nose...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

^Romulans and Vulcans are the same species.

I'm pretty positive Cardassians and Bajorans are as well, or are damned close (same genus), because there's just no sense in Tora Ziyal otherwise.

Though given the way we've seen Dukat act, I wouldn't be surprised if, once he found out Tora Naprem had conceived, if he did arrange to have Naprem treated somehow to ensure the fetus would be viable. From a plot standpoint, at least, it would make sense to have Dukat's obsessive behavior when it comes to Ziyal start even before she was born.

I just want to know what kind of nose the offspring would get.

bajoran style. if a half-Vulcan gets the ears eyebrows and green blood, and a half-Betazoid gets the dark eyes or a half-Klingon gets half a crest, stands to reason a half-Bajoran gets the nose.

I have always wondered, based on what we see onscreen, if the human genome is particularly "pliable," compared to a lot of the other alien races out there. That is, it seems to me that traits of any other race tend to dominate the human genome, which might suggest an unusual ability to "flex" and accept outside influence, as compared to other genomes.

 

[Strider]

Let's not also forget that a Bajoran's heart is mirrored along a horizontal as opposed to a vertical one like a Terran heart, so it could be probable some cardiac developmental issues in the fetus could manifest themselves. At any rate it would be a very interesting dialogue for Tal Celes and my OC to have with the doctor regarding their baby.

Oh yeah that'll be a real page turner

 

[Sky]

I misread this "Belgian/Human Hybrids". But never mind, carry on...

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm pretty positive Cardassians and Bajorans are as well, or are damned close (same genus), because there's just no sense in Tora Ziyal otherwise.

A story in the art book, "New Worlds, New Civilizations" links both races as descendants of the ancient Hebitians of Cardassia.

 

[Myasishchev]

I'm pretty positive Cardassians and Bajorans are as well, or are damned close (same genus), because there's just no sense in Tora Ziyal otherwise.

A story in the art book, "New Worlds, New Civilizations" links both races as descendants of the ancient Hebitians of Cardassia.

Life here, began out there.

I was faintly aware of the Hebitians, but couldn't recall the name or the source. Thanks, Therin.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I'm pretty positive Cardassians and Bajorans are as well, or are damned close (same genus), because there's just no sense in Tora Ziyal otherwise.

A story in the art book, "New Worlds, New Civilizations" links both races as descendants of the ancient Hebitians of Cardassia.

Which, while it was a neat story with very compelling illustrations...makes no bloody sense whatsoever. The Bajorans are a mammalian species; the Cardassians appear to be mammaliforme therapsids. Close-ish, but as separate as a koala from a mammalian bear. That's even more than just a genus separation and should mean medical intervention would be required for any interbreeding to be successful.

And personally...I see Dukat as exactly the sort who would provide that intervention to make sure the fetus was viable. It would fit his obsession with uniting Cardassia and Bajor in his image...

 

[Myasishchev]

I'm pretty positive Cardassians and Bajorans are as well, or are damned close (same genus), because there's just no sense in Tora Ziyal otherwise.

A story in the art book, "New Worlds, New Civilizations" links both races as descendants of the ancient Hebitians of Cardassia.

Which, while it was a neat story with very compelling illustrations...makes no bloody sense whatsoever. The Bajorans are a mammalian species; the Cardassians appear to be mammaliforme therapsids. Close-ish, but as separate as a koala from a mammalian bear. That's even more than just a genus separation and should mean medical intervention would be required for any interbreeding to be successful.

And personally...I see Dukat as exactly the sort who would provide that intervention to make sure the fetus was viable. It would fit his obsession with uniting Cardassia and Bajor in his image...

They only do if you want them to. Armadillos have scales, and I share 95+% of my DNA with them. They are taxonomically in a different genus, but functionally we are very close.

Cardassians and Bajorans are morphologically even more similar, probably because they're humans in makeup, but let's forget that.

After a crash landing on Bajor, the Hebitian survivors (whose relatives evolved into the modern Cardassians, although of course somehow their civilization was annihilated) were selected over a few hundred thousand years for skin construction closer to that of a human. God knows where the nose came from, because I can't see much evolutionary advantage in crinkles--maybe it's vestigial facebones. Their intelligence, of course, would have been retained as a highly advantageous trait. Ultimately, we have two species who are close enough to produce mule-children.

The alternative is two species with less in common than I do with a pine tree having natural offspring. You know what happens if I have sex with a pine tree? Emergency room bills, that's what happens! Not a race of Ents!

Dukat could I guess have intervened medically--but ignoring for the moment the very iffy motivations for doing so, you're supposing there'd have been a conception at all. If there was fertilization, and these two are true aliens to each other, Tora Ziyal lives briefly--as a spontaneous abortion.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Look, I'm not saying Cardassians and Bajorans are as dissimilar as you and a pine tree.

IRL I can buy Cro-Magnon/Neanderthal interbreeding without medical intervention (and believe it may in fact have happened), but that's about as much as I could accept since in THAT case you're at least talking about people from the same planet.

If you're talking about people from entirely different planets, God knows if they're even going to have the same number of chromosomes. And even if they do, you're still dealing with what are (IMHO, based on canon evidence) some pretty big differences in physiology. Cardassian chemical tolerances are totally different, they have scales, their metabolism seems to run differently (the heat/cold sensitivity suggests they are, if not cold-blooded, more therapsid than mammal). To me, the evidence is there to suggest they are part of a different Order (biological, not Obsidian), just as on Earth, mammals, marsupials, and monotremes are of different orders, and the mammaliforme therapsids would be had they survived into modern day.

I mean, again...I loved the story, but I just think that whoever wrote it didn't think it through from a scientific perspective. I could buy a successful mating (given what we know about the ancient humanoid ancestors), but WITH medical intervention, because the Cardassians seem quite different from the ancient humanoid template.

 

[Dingo]

Though given the way we've seen Dukat act, I wouldn't be surprised if, once he found out Tora Naprem had conceived, if he did arrange to have Naprem treated somehow to ensure the fetus would be viable. From a plot standpoint, at least, it would make sense to have Dukat's obsessive behavior when it comes to Ziyal start even before she was born.

NerysGhemor, an intersting side arguement aside, what of Mika's child from the Cult of the Pahwraith's? Do you think that Dukat did the same there? He knew the infant was his, but presumably any medical personnel on his station would have known as well.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Though given the way we've seen Dukat act, I wouldn't be surprised if, once he found out Tora Naprem had conceived, if he did arrange to have Naprem treated somehow to ensure the fetus would be viable. From a plot standpoint, at least, it would make sense to have Dukat's obsessive behavior when it comes to Ziyal start even before she was born.

NerysGhemor, an intersting side arguement aside, what of Mika's child from the Cult of the Pahwraith's? Do you think that Dukat did the same there? He knew the infant was his, but presumably any medical personnel on his station would have known as well.

I think that Dukat possibly did. Considering that he was running a cult at the time and had TREMENDOUS power over those in his flock, I think it's very possible he could've fed that same line about how such a child would fulfill the "prophecy" to his doctor, and had the doctor surreptitiously treat Mika in some way. Whether Mika herself knew exactly what kind of medication/treatment she was receiving...that is an open question. The doctor could've made up any excuse he/she liked as to what was happening.

 

[Dingo]

There was a line in Indiscretions where Kira mentions other half-Bajoran/half-Cardassian children. Would that mean that every Cardassian who impregnated his Bajoran mistress took the same precautions that Dukat did? I figured such children were usually aborted or killed or exiled.

And also, why go through all the trouble of genetic tampering just to knock up one's mistress? If Dukat did care about his career and the like, what would he stand to gain by impregnating Naprem?

I think that it is entirely possible that Bajorans and Cardassians are genetically compatible because of the existance of Tora Ziyal and others like her.

I think that Dukat possibly did. Considering that he was running a cult at the time and had TREMENDOUS power over those in his flock, I think it's very possible he could've fed that same line about how such a child would fulfill the "prophecy" to his doctor, and had the doctor surreptitiously treat Mika in some way. Whether Mika herself knew exactly what kind of medication/treatment she was receiving...that is an open question. The doctor could've made up any excuse he/she liked as to what was happening.

That would also mean that the doctor was complicit in Dukat's scheme or at least had some knowledge that Mika's child wasn't her husband's.

Anyway, back to the original question, would it be conceivable that a Bajoran/human child might have some pre-natal issues during the pregnancy? I ask, again, for the sake of a Voyager fanfic I'm working on where there's a subplot of a Bajoran crewmember and a human Starfleet officer have a baby.

 

[Myasishchev]

^They would have the prenatal issue of not being able to get pregnant naturally, or the prenatal issue of automatic miscarriage within a couple of week.

So, a consensus has been reached that Cardassians = Bajorans? Sublight arkships, perhaps? Or... whatever the hell that was supposed to be in Explorers?

I liked Explorers the movie better. Greatest kid's sci fi ever. Ethan Hawke rules.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

^They would have the prenatal issue of not being able to get pregnant naturally, or the prenatal issue of automatic miscarriage within a couple of week.

We haven't heard of miscarriages, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have happened. I would imagine they've happened with a lot of multi-species couplings.

And Dingo--yes, I do imagine the doctor as complicit in the scheme. I bet you Dukat could've really stoked the doc's ego by telling him he was the only one "blessed" enough to receive such information (with a smattering of how he'd be punished if he spilled it to anyone, of course).

As for why Dukat bothered with treating Naprem...I think Dukat's obsession with his progeny ran even beyond his obsession with his career. The same behavior we saw in "Indiscretion," where he sacrificed it all for Ziyal, I can readily imagine having already happened once at the beginning of her life. We can disagree--but to me, at least, it's perfectly in character for him.

Given the state of medicine for the Bajorans during the Occupation, I would have expected there to be many more miscarriages with Cardassian/Bajoran hybrids than there were births. Some mothers who decided to keep their children might well have sought some sort of treatment on the sly to keep them alive.

That might've actually made a very interesting ethical dilemma if such parents were sometimes viewed as collaborators and treated poorly for making that decision and going for treatments on the sly. ("Especially when that money could've put food on the table for full Bajorans.")

Hell, I could even imagine it as a way to turn the abortion debate on its ear. You hear about "back-alley abortions"...what about back-alley treatments for the exact opposite reason?

 

[Therin of Andor]

You know what happens if I have sex with a pine tree?

Splinters.