Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
- Start date
Yeah, it wasn't Sheridan and Delenn standing up the Vorlons and Shadows that convinced them, it was the people on all the other ships being willing to die to protect them. Delenn says it herself, the Vorlons and Shadows can keep resisting, and kill all the younger races who refuse to play along in their sick little game, and they'll just end up with an empty galaxy full of death and failure.
That plus Lorien and the other First Ones agreeing to go with them rather sealed the deal.
I just finished rewatching "TKO", and honestly can't figure out why it gets derided by the B5 fandom.Fandom.
Both of the stories it tells are interesting, we get some insight into the world of B5 both on-station and on Earth, and we follow up on the B-plot from Born to the Purple.
It's not at all consequential, but it's not bad at all.
Both of the stories it tells are interesting, we get some insight into the world of B5 both on-station and on Earth, and we follow up on the B-plot from Born to the Purple.
It's not at all consequential, but it's not bad at all.
The main part of the episode IMO is the Susan Ivanova story.
You said it yourself. It's not at all consequential. Additionally, a significant aspect of the story is a trope that's been done in television and film ranging from The Karate Kid to "Tsunkatse" and I suspect a significant portion of the fanbase wasn't intrested in watching an episode of B5 (or Star Trek for that matter) that revolved largely around men beating on each other for fun and profit.
That plus the main character of the episode is someone who shows up without any introduction, barely has anything to do with anyone or anything else going on, and by the end is gone never to be seen or heard of again.
It also feels counter productive making the mutai an "aliens only" thing, as if all of the non-humans on B5 are culturally homogenous and monolithic alien society, rather than the dozen of radically different species that they are. If this is something that unifies them, then the episode should have gone to greater lengths to show that, to explore it's history, how it bridges that gap.
Instead, it's more about a dude with something to prove and does so by hitting people, really hard,
It's a well genre TV writers seem rather attached to though as I vaguely recall BSG also doing a boxing episode (which similarly left me indifferent.)
My main problem with TKO is how they intercut between the climactic fight scene and Ivanova emotionally eulogizing her father. Individually, both scenes might be good and effective, but switching back and forth doesn't let you get hyped up with the fight, nor let you feel all that much with Ivanova. They really should have had the scenes play after one another, not simultaneously.
I wouldn't be shocked if it turns out the Ivanova b-plot was originally assigned to another episode prior to some kind of reshuffle and just landed here by default. That or DiTillio's original script either lacked a b-plot altogether and this was inserted to pad the runtime, or there was one but it was deemed even less interesting than the mutai and JMS substituted this one in it's stead.
Honestly, it would have been better if the A & B plots here had switched places and make Garabaldi running into an old buddy the side-story. Would have certainly saved on the prosthetics budget, if nothing else.
Inconsequentiality isn't sufficient justification for labeling an episode as being "bad".
I haven't watched "TKO" since it aired, so my opinion is based on a pretty old and faded memory. But, as I understand it, I thought it was bad, not just inconsequential. Boxing (and other types of fighting) episodes annoy me, because they're always stories glorifying guys who pound the shit out of each other written by guys who sit in front of a typewriter or a computer all day. And when, as pointed out above, it's a totally arbitrary story with a guy we don't know fighting in a sport we don't know that has dumb rules, that doesn't help. It's just another example of "hey, we should do a boxing story, everybody does one."
Being disinterested in or annoyed by an episode's concept is also insufficient justification for labeling said episode as being "bad".
Remember Amanda Tapping's series "Sanctuary"? Been watching that with the wife lately. Only 10 eps into season 1 when a TKO-like fighting story came up, involving an old friend of a main character, and genetically modified mutant fighters. This was 2008, but I guess it's a holdover trope from the 90s. 
Disinterested means objective. Uninterested means not interested. Either way, what I said above was, "I thought it was bad." The first two words there signal that the following was my opinion.
Inconsequentiality wasn't the only reason I cited either.
In any case, "good" and "bad" are subjective terms when we're talking about describing an episode of TV, so I don't think you get to declare what is and isn't sufficient justification for other people.
I thought TKO was weak just because it was incredibly cliche. It didn't make me care about the outcome. Ooh, some boxer wants to prove he can beat up aliens. How very interesting.
I liked that show. I believe that was where I discovered that Christopher Heyerdahl is an awesome actor.Remember Amanda Tapping's series "Sanctuary"? Been watching that with the wife lately. Only 10 eps into season 1 when a TKO-like fighting story came up, involving an old friend of a main character, and genetically modified mutant fighters. This was 2008, but I guess it's a holdover trope from the 90s.
SANCTUARY was good. I miss it.
Yeah, I never got why humans specifically were banned.
I always wondered about that.
I theorized it has something to do with either humans being among the youngest space faring races, or that the mutai was a creation of the Dilgar, and since the humans had a huge hand in their final defeat that ultimately led to their extinction, they were forbidden to enter.
I theorized it has something to do with either humans being among the youngest space faring races, or that the mutai was a creation of the Dilgar, and since the humans had a huge hand in their final defeat that ultimately led to their extinction, they were forbidden to enter.
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