Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
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THAT is one of THE best moments in all the shows I've ever seen. The first time I saw that when it aired, I stood up and cheered.
Every time I rewatch... I still do.
Excellent choice, dupersuper.
Every time I rewatch... I still do.
Excellent choice, dupersuper.
Not meaning to push anything, but for those who may not know, JMS is doing reaction/commentary videos for his Patreons. He just uploaded "Babylon Squared" last night.
I'm happy with the live action footage being properly remastered with even the original CGI, even if they matte one or the other to keep the same aspect ratio. I've seen upscaled and gamut-enhanced B5 CGI on youtube made by hobbyists - given the limited textures used, that's arguably in favor regarding choices involving upscaling vs making new f/x. It's not bad...
When the blu-ray comes out I'll be there on day one.
Much thanks. Video tape editing was brilliant back in the day for numerous reasons, but VT's color gamut was crippled and so much was lost from the original 35mm film. Even artificial enhancement won't come close.
The film restoration is clearly truer to proper, original hues whereas the "original" VT edit is artificially warm in quite a few scenes. Though 2:29-2:39, the VT original looks closer to actual white than the remastered salmon color cast - unless that was the original intent, and noting flesh tones and other colors definitely look truer than before; remember the good old days when NTSC was mocked with "Never The Same Color". And the salmon hue adds a bit of character in of itself. The added detail clearly shows a proper remastering and not mere upscaling. They really put in a ton of work in remastering each scene (a la TNG).
2:58-3:03 is probably the most astounding change. It's absolutely gorgeous. (And note the purple neon turning blue - that was completely unexpected, but suits the palette of the entire room better than the "SNES purple" had. The window behind Lennier showing dawn also goes from rainy day gray to lively teal. For something small, that's actually huge.
The CGI I saw in the clip seem on par with the hobbyist stuff, if not better. I'm surprised by how good they actually look considering the lack of polygonal count. Moire removal was also jaw-droppingly impressive. If a choice were to be made, I'd keep the original f/x upscaled and not make new ones - only for historical intrigue. Or offer both originals upscaled and new ones if they ever were to consider doing new f/x and at 16:9 framing...
But the live action footage alone - it really is watching a show over for the very first time.
The idea was to help him finance personal projects but after he became executor of Harlan Ellison's estate, he created a temporary tier to help him cover costs involved with the estate that are tied up in red tape due, in part, to the pandemic. That part is also being used to bring "The Last Dangerous Visions" to print finally and eventually create Ellison Wonderland as a landmark/museum/library.
While I wish we lived in a world where redoing the CGI made financial sense, this looks so much better than before I'm still delighted. If anything it's a bit too good as there's no longer any disguising how low the budget was.
Here's hoping the rumored blu-ray box set does happen.
Here's hoping the rumored blu-ray box set does happen.
Back before this happened, and before JMS ever mentioned the film masters this was made from, my dream B5 remastering was a blu-ray release with new, from-scratch state-of-the-art effects in widescreen HD, created by as many B5 VFX alumns and OG fan artists turned pro as they could get, along with the original 4x3 SD versions as-is as a special feature.
If only.
Wishlist of episodes I'd be head over heels to see new, state-of-the-art FX for would be The Long, Twilight Struggle, Severed Dreams and Shadow Dancing.
Maybe Into The Fire, but I'd be happy for the FX artists to redo the whole battle from scratch.
The main problem with redoing the effects is and will always be: money. It's the kind of thing where if you're going to throw that much money around, one may as well be making a whole new show!
Another problem is that historically, updated effects tend not to stay updated for long and can quickly become dated. Better in the long run to preserve the originals, warts and all.
The iTunes version is quite a bit better than the DVD version.
I have bought both but I can only apply AI upscaling to the DVD version. When I do that, the live scenes are better than in the iTunes version. The CGI is also improved relative to the DVD version but I don't think it improves on the CGI in the iTunes version and certainly can't address the cropping issue with the CGI on the DVDs. I'd like to try AI upscaling on the iTunes version but DRM prevents this.
I have bought both but I can only apply AI upscaling to the DVD version. When I do that, the live scenes are better than in the iTunes version. The CGI is also improved relative to the DVD version but I don't think it improves on the CGI in the iTunes version and certainly can't address the cropping issue with the CGI on the DVDs. I'd like to try AI upscaling on the iTunes version but DRM prevents this.
The way I put it on Reddit was that this new 4x3 remaster is the best we could reasonably hope for (better, actually, since it's only been a couple years since we found out it was even possible from JMS), and a new 16x9 version with updated or restored VFX would only happen if, within the next couple of decades or so, someone becomes a Warner Brothers executive who loves Babylon 5 the way Jeff Bezos loves The Expanse.
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As I recall, DS9 restoration was to cost $20 million for the whole series (with new effects and all)? One season of Discovery had cost $8~$10 million per episode, of which 15 episodes were made. Was DSC's second and third seasons on par with the cost to manufacture? Of course, what were TNG's sales figures to date (at time of release and additional sales every time they lowered the price? Add in streaming sales too?)
Even then, would having upscaled the original DS9 f/x and melding them to properly remastered film sequences be adequate? At least for most scenes; they did use live action and f/x in some scenes (and thankfully fewer than what VOY had done). Some new CGI would have to be redone; a fuzzy blurry Odo shapeshift may or may not look as good if upscaled from 480i to 1080P. Assuming the CGI elements still exist...
Not to mention, how did Trek DVD sales from 2002 compare? They were $120 per season, not $60, and there was no remastering and not as many special features. The profits from there usually go back into the company to use either for the same show and/or different ones.
The double-dipping (or triple-dipping if one did VHS) may have been irritating for some, but how many in that "some" didn't understand what went into the new releases - or if nothing else the superior video and sound quality being a magnitude better than the predecessors, and VHS tape lifespan wasn't that great for a number of reasons, and blu-rays are also coated to resist scratching better than any DVD will ever be, et cetera ad nauseum?
If I can use AI software to upscale SD video to near HD quality, I expect that studios are already looking at this technique to refresh their back catalogues cheaply. The only drawback at the moment is sourcing enough GPU chips to build a dedicated server farm. It is impossible to get hold of high-end graphics cards at the moment without paying extortionate prices. Previously, this happened because of bitcoin mining but now Covid-19 is being blamed as people spend their lockdown playing graphically intensive computer games. I suspect this throttling of supply and talking up of demand is a deliberate ploy to inflate prices but I could well be biased.
(RIP Mira Furlan - Delenn is one of the better characters for me; sad to hear the news)
"The Coming of Shadows"
A great episode and pretty obviously a game-changer going forward. I was expecting an important showing given that this is the titular episode of the season and it delivered.
Loved the buildup of G'Kar's assassination plans, with the creepy blood-red shots of him in his quarters, scheming the deed. What's more, the eventual reveal that the Centauri Emporer had been planning a sincere gesture of apology to the Narn people not only surprised me in itself - but also in G'Kar's reaction. I'd figured he'd be too vengeful to accept mere words as reciprocation for the atrocities committed by the Centauri. Instead, his readiness to acknowledge the apparent goodness in the hearts of the Centauri also revealed the goodness in his own.
In contrast, Londo is on a path of no return with his actions here. How will this affect his character going forwards? Will he experience prolonged remorse, or be further corrupted by the ability to have colonies wiped out of existence with a mere word? Personally, I felt that the episode could've delved a bit more into explaining his decision to trigger a war with a little more detail than it did (the plot moved pretty quickly) but that's a very minor complaint.
I was definitely blindsided by the return (in video message form) of Sinclair; I figured he had to return eventually in some capacity but I didn't think it would be so soon. Really great touch and fascinated to see where this goes.
To me, it feels like the real Babylon 5 has truly begun by now.
Rating: *****
-"We are now at war. We are now at war."
-The cinematography was different in this one. I enjoyed the tracking shot of the Emperor and his various guards and attendants just before he collapsed.
-Refa is quite despicable, isn't he?
-When the show started, G'Kar seemed to me as though he was being portrayed as more of a villain, while Londo was the opposite. By now, those roles have reversed, but even then, it's not even close to being that simple. The shades of grey in the characters of this show make them extremely compelling.
"The Coming of Shadows"
A great episode and pretty obviously a game-changer going forward. I was expecting an important showing given that this is the titular episode of the season and it delivered.
Loved the buildup of G'Kar's assassination plans, with the creepy blood-red shots of him in his quarters, scheming the deed. What's more, the eventual reveal that the Centauri Emporer had been planning a sincere gesture of apology to the Narn people not only surprised me in itself - but also in G'Kar's reaction. I'd figured he'd be too vengeful to accept mere words as reciprocation for the atrocities committed by the Centauri. Instead, his readiness to acknowledge the apparent goodness in the hearts of the Centauri also revealed the goodness in his own.
In contrast, Londo is on a path of no return with his actions here. How will this affect his character going forwards? Will he experience prolonged remorse, or be further corrupted by the ability to have colonies wiped out of existence with a mere word? Personally, I felt that the episode could've delved a bit more into explaining his decision to trigger a war with a little more detail than it did (the plot moved pretty quickly) but that's a very minor complaint.
I was definitely blindsided by the return (in video message form) of Sinclair; I figured he had to return eventually in some capacity but I didn't think it would be so soon. Really great touch and fascinated to see where this goes.
To me, it feels like the real Babylon 5 has truly begun by now.
Rating: *****
-"We are now at war. We are now at war."
-The cinematography was different in this one. I enjoyed the tracking shot of the Emperor and his various guards and attendants just before he collapsed.
-Refa is quite despicable, isn't he?
-When the show started, G'Kar seemed to me as though he was being portrayed as more of a villain, while Londo was the opposite. By now, those roles have reversed, but even then, it's not even close to being that simple. The shades of grey in the characters of this show make them extremely compelling.
Examples of Babylon 5 in HD as available on HBO Max have just been uploaded by CaptRobau on YouTube:
A Blu-ray release is rumoured for March so I guess I'll be buying that to sharpen and upscale.
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This is the first episode of Babylon 5 to receive a Hugo Award.
The scene with Sinclair was filmed months earlier, a few weeks after Season 1.
Even though Sinclair introduces the Rangers to Garibaldi, this isn't the first time they have been seen. If you re-watch earlier episodes, you will see Rangers moving around Babylon 5 in the background.
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