Babylon 5

[Reverend]

I never said the Shadow's servants were dormant, just the Shadows themselves and that they were definitely awoken at least a century ahead of schedule. Their servants were mostly keeping quiet and keeping things running while their masters slept. That includes sending out vessels to retrieve any of the seeded derelicts if they are discovered. There's no way they'd start kicking off wars on their own initiative.

I'm sorry but even leaving that aside it makes zero sense for the Dilgar thing to have anything to do with either the Shadows and the Vorlons. For one thing the Vorlons didn't start striking down Shadow supported worlds directly until *after* Sheridan's bombing on Zha'dum, so they idea that they're responsible for the supernova is out.

Besides, there's already a perfectly straightforward accounting for the Dilgar's motivation: they knew their sun was dying and they tried to forge a new Empire rather than live as refugees. The gambit failed and they all died. The End.

 

[Marsden]

I never said the Shadow's servants were dormant, just the Shadows themselves and that they were definitely awoken at least a century ahead of schedule. Their servants were mostly keeping quiet and keeping things running while their masters slept. That includes sending out vessels to retrieve any of the seeded derelicts if they are discovered. There's no way they'd start kicking off wars on their own initiative.

I'm sorry but even leaving that aside it makes zero sense for the Dilgar thing to have anything to do with either the Shadows and the Vorlons. For one thing the Vorlons didn't start striking down Shadow supported worlds directly until *after* Sheridan's bombing on Zha'dum, so they idea that they're responsible for the supernova is out.

Besides, there's already a perfectly straightforward accounting for the Dilgar's motivation: they knew their sun was dying and they tried to forge a new Empire rather than live as refugees. The gambit failed and they all died. The End.

I think your first paragraph was in response to me, but I didn't say those other things.

I only thought the Vorlon wouldn't want that tech out there and destroyed it, as shown.

 

[JD]

I finished rewatching The Gathering this morning, and it really is cool how much was introduced there that got expanded on as the series continued.
Was Sinclair's girlfriend here always entended as a one off character? It felt like she was being set up as a pretty big character here, but I don't remember seeing her after The Gathering, and we got Catherine Sakai as Sinclair's girlfriend instead.

 

[Brolan]

The hardcore B5ers can correct if I am wrong but I recall JMS planned on making her a more major character but it just didn't work out as he wrote the series.

 

[DonIago]

She could have become a one-off the way many of the other characters in the pilot episode became one-offs, given that Catherine pretty much replaces her.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I just started season 4 of my rewatch. So much I'm noticing this time around, after learning how the story ends.

 

[Reverend]

I finished rewatching The Gathering this morning, and it really is cool how much was introduced there that got expanded on as the series continued.
Was Sinclair's girlfriend here always entended as a one off character? It felt like she was being set up as a pretty big character here, but I don't remember seeing her after The Gathering, and we got Catherine Sakai as Sinclair's girlfriend instead.

Jan probably knows for sure, but I was under the impression that yes, Carolyn Sykes was intended to be "the" on-again, off-again girlfriend. I'm assuming the original actress was unavailable or unwilling to come back for the show (which keep in mind was produced a full year after the pilot) and rather than recast the role, they recast the character.
The names are a bit of a giveaway: Carolyn Sykes & Catherine Sakai. Pretty much like when Jeffery Sinclair was replaced by John Sheridan.

And yeah, had Sinclair not been replaced, Sakai would have had a larger role too. Some parts of it were I think given to Anna Sheridan, but not quite in the same context. This is an example of JMS's "trapdoor" writing system at work. He designed into each character a plausible way to get them off the show and transfer some of their more vital plot threads to someone else in the event they loose a cast member, for one reason or another.
For example: Takashima from the pilot was supposed to turn out to be the Psi Corp mole "Control", but when they didn't get the actress back, that thread was carried over to Talia. The reason it was Talia and not Ivonava was because from what I gather, word of that plot point had leaked out in the interim.

 

[Aeon]

For example: Takashima from the pilot was supposed to turn out to be the Psi Corp mole "Control", but when they didn't get the actress back, that thread was carried over to Talia. The reason it was Talia and not Ivonava was because from what I gather, word of that plot point had leaked out in the interim.

Actually that thread was split for two characters. Takashima would have also been the one who shot Garibaldi in the back so that job went to Garibaldi's aide Jack and, like you mentioned, the Control part of the story went for Talia. Too bad the latter didn't really work out too well because of the actress, but at least there you can see yet another trap door at work.

 

[Reverend]

^Yeah I know, I was just simplifying it for the sake of an example. I could also have mentioned that it sort of came full circle when Lyta returned and picked up some of her old threads that had been moved to Talia as seen in 'Mind War' & 'A Race Through Dark Places'. But there's only so many hours in the day and only so much B5 trivia I can dish out before peoples' eyes start to glaze over.

 

[JWPlatt]

...Takashima from the pilot...

Tamlyn Tomita's portrayal of Takashima was quite wooden; you could hear her read the script back to you. I think she got better in other roles, and maybe she would have gotten better as Takashima, but the pilot left me thankful the character was not continued.

 

[Forbin]

Tamlyn Tomita is a fine actress in everything I've seen her in except B5. Maybe she just wasn't into it? Who knows...

 

[Jan]

One of the reasons Tamlyn wasn't in the show was because she wasn't comfortable in the role. As for Carolyn Sykes, I never heard a reason why she wasn't brought to the series although I thought the chemistry between Sakai and Sinclair was much, much better.

 

[Marsden]

Tamlyn Tomita's portrayal of Takashima was quite wooden; you could hear her read the script back to you. I think she got better in other roles, and maybe she would have gotten better as Takashima, but the pilot left me thankful the character was not continued.

Tamlyn Tomita is a fine actress in everything I've seen her in except B5. Maybe she just wasn't into it? Who kows...

You guys know about the looping, right?

After we finished the original pilot, some folks at WB felt that Laurel was too...strong. They will rarely put it in terms quite as blatant as that, but that was the message...she was "unlikeable, unsympathetic, harsh." Meaning some of the guys felt she was too strong, let's cut to the chase, okay?

They wanted her to loop her lines, soften their (her) delivery. I fought this tooth and nail. I fought this until finally I was pulled aside and it was communicated to me that B5 was, after all, still an unknown property, could be a big failure, and if we ever wanted to see this thing on the air, we'd accommodate this note (which was, I have to admit on balance, one of the few they had). The advice was, in essence, "Pick your battles."
So, reluctantly, I let it get looped by Tamlyn.

Also, Ivonova did inherit one of her threads, the coffee plant! Real coffee beans!

 

[Reverend]

I honestly never had a problem with Tomita's performance. In terms of stiffness it was about on par with what everyone else was doing in the pilot and those that weren't being stiff and awkward were hamming it up like crazy. So it never really stood out to me.

I would say that it's possible they cast Takashima a little young. On paper, the character seems like she should be quite a bit older to be so jaded and experienced as she's made out to be. That may have actually been Tomita's read on it too and why she played it so stern and reserved. Plus, she is playing a senior military officer, not the station's florist so she had to be able to project authority to have any credibility.

 

[JWPlatt]

I never heard the looping story, thanks. The wiki about the character includes this:

Straczynski found the loss of Tomita particularly frustrating, as the Warner Brothers executives felt she was not convincing as a military officer, a result of their own earlier request to make her performance more feminine and relatable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Takashima

 

[Marsden]

Am I the only one that thinks WB couldn't make a right decision to save it's life?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but not WB.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I honestly never had a problem with Tomita's performance. In terms of stiffness it was about on par with what everyone else was doing in the pilot and those that weren't being stiff and awkward were hamming it up like crazy. So it never really stood out to me.

I would say that it's possible they cast Takashima a little young. On paper, the character seems like she should be quite a bit older to be so jaded and experienced as she's made out to be. That may have actually been Tomita's read on it too and why she played it so stern and reserved. Plus, she is playing a senior military officer, not the station's florist so she had to be able to project authority to have any credibility.

The station's florist. Now there's an untold BABYLON 5 tale waiting to happen.

 

[Brolan]

Am I the only one that thinks WB couldn't make a right decision to save it's life?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but not WB.

That's a trait shared by Fox.

 

[LJones41]

Am I the only one that thinks WB couldn't make a right decision to save it's life?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but not WB.

Nearly every television or movie production company or studio is guilty of this.

 

[Reverend]

I've always been a bit confused by the nature of the note: "she's not credible enough as a military officer, so make her sound softer and more feminine!" Seems a bit counter-intuitive, no? Like saying "This person isn't selling their character's compassionate nature. Have them kick more puppies!"