Babylon 5

[RJDiogenes]

Actually in cases like this I'm pretty sure the ultimate responsibility is on the whoever sent a drunk out into the field. Sheridan even admits later that he suspected and did nothing.

That's true. Sheridan had some culpability.

Who would have no way of knowing Garibaldi was the weak link in the chain in either incident.

It doesn't matter if the families actually know or not-- that's just making the point that the effects of his failure go beyond a botched operation. As you say, in any war or conflict people die for many reasons and we don't always know what those reasons are-- but the reasons still exist. And people don't always face the consequences of what they've done. But in this case, in terms of storytelling, it felt awkward and incomplete.

 

[Reverend]

That's true. Sheridan had some culpability.


It doesn't matter if the families actually know or not-- that's just making the point that the effects of his failure go beyond a botched operation. As you say, in any war or conflict people die for many reasons and we don't always know what those reasons are-- but the reasons still exist. And people don't always face the consequences of what they've done. But in this case, in terms of storytelling, it felt awkward and incomplete.

OK, so how would you liked to have seen Garibaldi's guilt dealt with exactly? Prison time? Death of Personality? Suicide? Or would sack cloth and ashes suffice?
Really, I don't see where else they could have gone with it without seeming vindictive or nihilistic.

Here's the thing; the universe isn't a just place. Not every wrong is paid for and not every eye and tooth are repaid in kind. Pretending otherwise would be deeply disingenuous storytelling, to say nothing of being boring.

 

[RJDiogenes]

OK, so how would you liked to have seen Garibaldi's guilt dealt with exactly? Prison time? Death of Personality? Suicide? Or would sack cloth and ashes suffice?
Really, I don't see where else they could have gone with it without seeming vindictive or nihilistic.

There are a million ways it could have been dealt with that would have been better than letting it drop. Acknowledging that he is responsible for multiple deaths is hardly vindictive or nihilistic.

Here's the thing; the universe isn't a just place. Not every wrong is paid for and not every eye and tooth are repaid in kind. Pretending otherwise would be deeply disingenuous storytelling, to say nothing of being boring.

It's neither disingenuous nor boring. As I said before, fiction is held to a higher standard than reality. What's boring is using the chaos of reality as an excuse for lazy storytelling. And I never said he had to pay for anything-- just that it should have been dealt with better than it was.

 

[Jan]

And I never said he had to pay for anything-- just that it should have been dealt with better than it was.

The question is - when? He got fired in 'Wheel of Fire' and was detoxing in 'Objects in Motion the same episode when he left the station. So exactly where in this "lazy storytelling" should he have displayed all of the angst you're saying we should have seen and which scenes should have been dropped in order to display it? Like it or not, Garibaldi's drunkenness and failing was an important part of the history being examined in the B5 'documentary' but his regrets simply aren't. Just as all the characters had lives before the story we saw, so did they after.

 

[Kail]

I'm watching "The Gathering". First impression, Londo's version the opening monologue about B5's mission and goal is MUCH better than Sinclairs version from season 1. I always thought he sounded pretty wooden.

Next, Gari-notso-baldy's assistant is sporting quite a pony-tail.

Weird looking hand weapons, good move re-designing them later.

I'm wondering what the purpose of the lights shining in your eyes on the breathing apparatus is suppose to be.
OMG. Is that the same actress playing De'lenn? Unrecognizable.

I guess the Asian first officer didn't work out. Bring on Ivanova.

Could you enlighten me on why Lyta was not a regular from the beginning?

Does anyone know how Sinclair's story would have played out had the actor not left after season 2? I can't see everything Sheridan and Sinclair did all being the same character.

OMG. Is that the same actress playing Delenn? Unrecognizable.

 

[Forbin]

I forgot why Tamlyn Tomita couldn't come back for the series, but jms' original plan was for her to be the Psycorps mole rather than Talya.

jms wanted Pat Tallman for the series, but someone higher up didn't. jms later got his wish when Andrea bailed.

 

[JWPlatt]

I forgot why Tamlyn Tomita couldn't come back for the series...

She couldn't act, but that's just my opinion and not official. Every line sounded like reading (the script) out loud with no character behind it. I hear she got better.

 

[Jan]

I'm wondering what the purpose of the lights shining in your eyes on the breathing apparatus is suppose to be.

Actors like their faces to be seen.

I guess the Asian first officer didn't work out. Bring on Ivanova.

In the original version the Powers That Be wanted Tamlyn's voice softened and then didn't find her believable with the softened voice (ya think?!). There may have been some chemistry issues, too.

Does anyone know how Sinclair's story would have played out had the actor not left after season 2? I can't see everything Sheridan and Sinclair did all being the same character.

True. JMS has said that a Sheridan character would have been needed no matter what since there would have been too much piled on Sinclair. In a version of the show outline written between the pilot and season one, something bad would have happened to Sakai and Delenn and Sinclair would have gotten together eventually. But in that version, B4 would have been taken to the future, not the past.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The question is - when? He got fired in 'Wheel of Fire' and was detoxing in 'Objects in Motion the same episode when he left the station. So exactly where in this "lazy storytelling" should he have displayed all of the angst you're saying we should have seen and which scenes should have been dropped in order to display it? Like it or not, Garibaldi's drunkenness and failing was an important part of the history being examined in the B5 'documentary' but his regrets simply aren't. Just as all the characters had lives before the story we saw, so did they after.

True, but nothing else left me the same feeling of lack of resolution.

 

[Yanks]

Enjoy reading everyone's insight into the great series that was BAB5.

 

[Kail]

One more thought on The Gathering, I think I got a much better understanding as to Londo's motivation for turning to the dark side. Without his great speech about Centauries (SP) glorious past, I didn't get how he would do anything to bring his Empire back, or how bitter he was.

 

[DonIago]

Er...I thought his answer to Morden summed that up quite nicely.

If G'kar had been as passionate when he answered the question, the series might have unfolded quite differently.

 

[Marsden]

Yeah...like the 'raiders' that showed up ever-so-conveniently whenever some convenient space conflict was wanted were a big part of the story arc? Or the aliens who sent the 'test' questions in 'A Day in the Strife'? It didn't happen all that often but sometimes even B5 did something for the sake of convenience.

This is just my opinion and not supported by any source, but i thought the pointy helmeted guys invading in A View from the Gallery were the ones that sent that berserker in A Day in the Strife.

I don't know why they always called them "raiders" and not Pirates, maybe not to invoke images of eyepatches and parrots, or they like Oakland better than Pittsburgh?

Reminds me of the X-Men.

I always thought Bester was the best live action portrayal of Magneto, up to that time at least. He really seems to be the same type of character, absolutely ruthless yet he seems to have a noble purpose to his own people. He's not just a good guy, he's their savior in his own mind.

 

[Forbin]

I could not love these two more at this point in their European Vacation:

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, they're having fun.

 

[Reverend]

This is just my opinion and not supported by any source, but i thought the pointy helmeted guys invading in A View from the Gallery were the ones that sent that berserker in A Day in the Strife.

I doubt it. The 'Gallery' aliens were like the baddies in Independence Day. One big fleet that just swarms through vulnerable systems, takes everything of value and move on to the next. What we saw was just a scouting party which is why it was so important that they wiped them out. If they never made it back to the home fleet then it'd convince them that this part of space isn't worth tangling with.

I've always assumed that just like the episode itself, we're only getting a piece of a much bigger picture that's going on, with the Rangers harrying these guys any time they get near Alliance space and other races coordinating to track the main fleet's movements.

That doesn't fit the MO of a race that would send out berserker probes IMO. Whoever sent those out is very keen *not* to get into a one-on-one fight with anyone and rather than being a mobile nation is probably still planet bound and trying to look as inoffensive and uninteresting as possible. Or at least they were when they sent those out. That race could have been dead and gone for millennia.

I don't know why they always called them "raiders" and not Pirates, maybe not to invoke images of eyepatches and parrots, or they like Oakland better than Pittsburgh?

I don't recall if JMS ever addressed that point, though if I had to guess, I think it was indeed probably to avoid the "space pirates!" moniker.
Another way to look at it is that space is big. REALLY big. And for one ship to find another in open space is difficult at best (forget about doing it in hyperspace) and I imagine most important jumpgates are well guarded. So I would suggest that what these types are probably *best* known for is hitting (or "raiding") small isolated colonies on the frontiers of the various powers. Quick hit-and-run, get in and get out before the local patrol fleet shows up.

 

[Reverend]

ETA damnit, that's twice I've hit "reply" instead of "edit"! I need new glasses...

Er...I thought his answer to Morden summed that up quite nicely.

If G'kar had been as passionate when he answered the question, the series might have unfolded quite differently.

It wasn't a question of passion, but ambition. The Shadows wanted an agent of chaos to spread conflict all over the galaxy and G'Kar just wanted revenge against one race while Londo wanted an Empire.

 

[MacLeod]

True, it's been a while since I watched the episode when Morden asks the question.

After G'Kar goes on about crushing the Centari, Morden ask "Then What?" To which G'Kar doesn't really have an answer or at least an answer that suits the needs of the Shadows. He hadn't really looked beyond getting revenge on the Centari

 

[Shalashaska]

I've never watched B5, but I'm definitely interested.

I'm on season 1 of DS9 now in my first Star Trek watchthrough, intermixing it with season 6 of TNG, and now I'm wondering if I should throw B5 in there too. Funnily enough, the episode I just watched, Birthright, Part I, aired the same day as the first pilot film, The Gathering. Just lucky timing, I guess, what do you think?

Also, I've heard the DVDs are poor stretched 16:9 transfers. Anywhere you can watch the standard 4:3 episodes in decent quality?

 

[Harvey]

Also, I've heard the DVDs are poor stretched 16:9 transfers. Anywhere you can watch the standard 4:3 episodes in decent quality?

They went back to the original film elements for the DVD transfers, so for the most part, they look great in 16:9, as the frame was protected for the widescreen format when the show was originally filmed. The one caveat is that the show's visual effects (including shots with live action elements) were all finished in 1.33:1. To make these 16:9, they have been horribly cropped (not stretched).

I believe the original 1.33:1 aspect ratio versions are on iTunes, but someone else can confirm.