Babylon 5

[Tim Walker]

If I understand correctly, after the first occupation by the Centauri, the Narns began to build their own empire. The Narns subjugated the Tuchanq, forcing them to work in munitions factories, and managed to damage the biosphere.

It seems that the Narns responded to their own misfortune by become an aggressive, expansionary species.

 

[Jan]

If I understand correctly, after the first occupation by the Centauri, the Narns began to build their own empire. The Narns subjugated the Tuchanq, forcing them to work in munitions factories, and managed to damage the biosphere.

It seems that the Narns responded to their own misfortune by become an aggressive, expansionary species.

Reasonably sure that's not canon. It wasn't part of the show, did it come from one of the roleplaying games? Worst that the Narn ever did on the show was to become arms dealers, iirc.

 

[Reverend]

Sounds like something from an RPG.
I'm pretty sure no such thing is mentioned in any canon source. As far as I'm aware only a few colony worlds are mentioned belonging to the Narn Regime, namely Shi, Dross & Zok. There was also Hilak VII which was wiped by the Dilgar, though I suppose it could have been resettled after the war. Aside from that, there's the various "quadrant" settlements, but I got the impression that those were mostly frontier military outposts, though quadrant 14 had a fairly substantial civilian population (250,000 IIRC.)

That said I wouldn't be surprised if the Narn ended up occupying a few bronze-tech worlds along the way, if they had some strategic value (the Earth Alliance certainly did.) Can't see them subjugating a whole species though. As aggressive as the Narn got, i don't think they ever made it to full-on imperialism.

 

[Kail]

I'm a few more episodes in. I just finished the one with the underground psychic railroad. Things are building up nicely. This season is moving along much faster then season 1. Bester appears to truly be a monster. Only true evil can do horrendous things then go spend the day with the family at the beach.

 

[Triskelion]

Koenig is simply fantastic in the role.

 

[Reverend]

I'm a few more episodes in. I just finished the one with the underground psychic railroad. Things are building up nicely. This season is moving along much faster then season 1. Bester appears to truly be a monster. Only true evil can do horrendous things then go spend the day with the family at the beach.

There's actually a lot more to Bester than you might think and he's easily the most interesting recurring character on the show.

Indeed, there's a whole series of canon books dedicated to him that goes very deep into his back story and psychology. In short though, he's very much a product of the Psi Corps.
Like any good villain, everything he does is for what he sees as the greater good of his people. He wants to protect his telepaths. Both from the mundanes and if necessary, from themselves.

One thing of note that you may have spotted is that he can't use his left hand as it's always clenched into a fist. This was Koenig's idea as he figured that his mental power ought to come at a physical price, in this case a deformed or withered hand. It's never even acknowledged on the show, but the aforementioned books went with it, but gave it a more deeply psychological and even symbolic significance.
He can open it any time he wants, he just *really* doesn't want to and for good reason.

 

[Chekov's Phaser]

Yeah, Chevok might be his most famous role, but Bester is definitely his best (no pun intended) role. I've been rewatching the show, and you can tell Koenig is having a blast playing Bester. Chevok is just a guy with a funny accent, but there is some psychological depth and nuance to his character that was never available to him in Star Trek.

 

[Marsden]

Reasonably sure that's not canon. It wasn't part of the show, did it come from one of the roleplaying games? Worst that the Narn ever did on the show was to become arms dealers, iirc.

Sounds like something from an RPG.
I'm pretty sure no such thing is mentioned in any canon source. As far as I'm aware only a few colony worlds are mentioned belonging to the Narn Regime, namely Shi, Dross & Zok. There was also Hilak VII which was wiped by the Dilgar, though I suppose it could have been resettled after the war. Aside from that, there's the various "quadrant" settlements, but I got the impression that those were mostly frontier military outposts, though quadrant 14 had a fairly substantial civilian population (250,000 IIRC.)

That said I wouldn't be surprised if the Narn ended up occupying a few bronze-tech worlds along the way, if they had some strategic value (the Earth Alliance certainly did.) Can't see them subjugating a whole species though. As aggressive as the Narn got, i don't think they ever made it to full-on imperialism.

Spoiler: my answer to these quotes

I don't believe that's correct, I don't know of those Turquats or whatever but the Narn were every bit as aggressive as the Centauri ever were, maybe more so as they were out to out-do the Centauri at their own game. I'm sure they put their own spin on it, though, but that's like comparing British Imperialism to Japanese Imperialism. Both sought control but with the British were building an Empire the Japanese had a Co-Prosperity Sphere. That's why one of the reasons why G'Kar's change from an aggressive bully bent on acquiring more power to a conciliatory diplomat and peacemaker is so dramatic, most of the Narn didn't feel that way, as made obvious to me when they carpet bombed Centauri Prime. [spoiler/]

 

[Reverend]

It's hard to credit the notion that the Narn were "as bad as the Centauri" since so far as I'm aware, they've never said to have annexed inhabited worlds (save for Ragesh III), enslaved the population or committed genocide. Aggressive and underhanded? Sure. Opportunistic profiteers and Dilgar collaborators? Absolutely. But they were never conquerors.
Remember that at their height, the Centauri ruled over most of the known galaxy save for Minbari & Vorlon space (since they were never stupid enough to try.) They were a true empire while the Narn are at most a rogue state. The only reason they're a threat to the Centauri (as of season 2) is that the Centauri are in a deep decline in terms of territory and economic clout.

 

[Forbin]

It occurs to me that Bester and Londo are a lot alike - both doing terrible things they think are right for the sake of their nation - Bester's "nation" being the Corps.

 

[Jan]

It occurs to me that Bester and Londo are a lot alike - both doing terrible things they think are right for the sake of their nation - Bester's "nation" being the Corps.

As JMS says, a monster never sees a monster in the mirror.

 

[Tim Walker]

Reasonably sure that's not canon. It wasn't part of the show, did it come from one of the roleplaying games? Worst that the Narn ever did on the show was to become arms dealers, iirc.

The information I got is from online references to a B5 novel, Clark's Law.

 

[Tim Walker]

Yeah, Chevok might be his most famous role, but Bester is definitely his best (no pun intended) role. I've been rewatching the show, and you can tell Koenig is having a blast playing Bester. Chevok is just a guy with a funny accent, but there is some psychological depth and nuance to his character that was never available to him in Star Trek.

Indeed.

And I find interesting Bester's response to changed circumstances-the coming of the Shadows.

 

[Abaddon]

Based on all your comments I'm going to have to check this one out.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The information I got is from online references to a B5 novel, Clark's Law.

As I understand it...some of the B5 novels are considered canon, and some are not. I'm not sure which is which.

 

[B.J.]

That's not one of them. The Shadow Within, To Dream in the City of Sorrows, the Legions of Fire (Centauri) trilogy, the Psi Corps trilogy, and the Technomage trilogy are the ones that are considered canon.

 

[Gov Kodos]

That's not one of them. The Shadow Within, To Dream in the City of Sorrows, the Legions of Fire (Centauri) trilogy, the Psi Corps trilogy, and the Technomage trilogy are the ones that are considered canon.

All good reads, too. The Technomage trilogy was especially fun since the writer was creating a lot of characters and places outside the show's TV setting. The Psi Corp trilogy was really good if you want to get a picture of why the Corp is seen the way it is in the show and how it got that way. I have more sympathy for what season 5 wanted to do at the start thanks to that trilogy. Legions of Fire is Londo's story and it is a lot of angst but that's Londo.

 

[K'Toska]

I've tried to watch Babylon 5 twice now. The first time I start at s01e01 and got halfway through then gave up. My husband's friend says it gets better in season 2 and is much like DS9. So I tried starting at season 2... still a no go. :/

 

[Chekov's Phaser]

As I'm rewatching the show, it's aged ok. Definitely that 90s feel. And it's stuck between two eras of tv. Episodic and contained on one hand, and highly serialized on the other. I liked the few times it took a chance visually. I just got done watching season's 4 "The Face of the Enemy," and

Spoiler: Face of the Enemy spoiler

I really liked the scene where Garibaldi sets up Sheridan's capture in the Martian bar. The music and the way it cuts and flashes in between Sheridan's fight was much more visually interesting then the show probably ever did. It' a little corny, but I liked seeing the show break away from the confines of the rather boring cinematography of the 90s. It was much more "prestige television" than 90s tv.

 

[Reverend]

That's not one of them. The Shadow Within, To Dream in the City of Sorrows, the Legions of Fire (Centauri) trilogy, the Psi Corps trilogy, and the Technomage trilogy are the ones that are considered canon.

I'd say *half* of 'The Shadow Within' is canon. Specifically the half featuring you-know-who visiting you-know-where. The b-story with Sheridan on the Aggie has some peculiarities about it IIRC and wasn't terribly significant anyway.

But yeah, any of the book before that are definitely not canon. Most of them seem to have been written by authors who hadn't watched the show or even bothered to read whatever series bible they would have been provided with.
I think one of them has Lyta show up as a blind person, others are just weird and all over the place.
Things massively improved once JMS got more hands on with the quality control.

Anyway, in addition to those novels, there's also some canon comics (one dealing with how Garabaldi met Sinclair and the other...I can't even describe here because: spoilers) and a bunch of short stories (most written by JMS himself.) All of which are long out of print and damn near impossible to get a hold of through legitimate means.