Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
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I forgot about this, maybe S5 does have good moments. I will have to re-watch this series again.
Whatever spoo tastes like, apparently Skeletor hates it.
I think this year I need to revisit the B5 Movies. The only one I've seen more than once was The Gathering, but when I was doing my B5 Watch a few years ago, I really liked A Call To Arms. In the Beginning was good too, but ACTA made me actually want to watch Crusade and I enjoyed that series, even though the whole Drakh thing wasn't dealt with because of the cancellation.
Legend of the Rangers was the one I've never seen and really didn't have an interest. If there was one thing I didn't like about Season 5 it was I felt they ruined the whole Rangers concept, but then it was inevitable because they could roam freely than in Season 2.
Same here, although I'm partial to "In the Beginning". I also liked "Legend of the Rangers". I seem to be in the minority on that. I am glad it wasn't turned into a series though. As a one-off it was fine, but I don't know if I would have watched an entire series of it.
The thing about LotR that bugged me was their harping on the "We live for the one, we die for the one" as some kind of command imperative that they HAD to die, rather than fail. I never read that slogan as some kamikaze cult thing, rather a philosophy of sacrifice if it was necessary.
They've always been sociopaths.
The very clear idea is that an invading army who are not complete assholes, are going to get sick of killing Minbari, if every Ranger they chance across charges their engines to ramming speed. Imagine if the French never surrendered in World War II? Sure the resistance was awesome, but if every citizen became a soldier rather than ignore Nazi occupation and embrace the new peace, because being rounded up for massgraves seemed to be the only alternative, maybe they could have knocked a couple years off the war? If the Nazis had to burn France and eliminate the French people, it would have cost German resources and and deprived the Reich of French resources they'd planned on co-opting, and drastically altered their timetable for world domination toward Britain, Africa and Russia.
Although if the French had been (more) difficult, maybe Hitler would have left Stalin alone, and then Germany would have won the War? It's a frayed tapestry made out of butterflies, right?
(Back to Babylon 5.)
Regular Warrior Caste don't fight like Rangers. Warrior Caste can retreat and surrender. Rangers can't do either, ever. A Ranger dying on the front line rather than retreating, has to be an excellent political tool to rally everyone else who can fight like sane people? This is the gig they signed on for. Hold the line, and keep firing until they're dead or you're dead.
They just need Gene Hackman giving his 'March or Die' speech to start off each day.
I have a question - this is probably the most extreme of nitpicking, but I've always been curious about something:
If, for whatever reason, JMS had wanted to put a ship into a B5 episode (or even a novel) and call it EAS Enterprise, would he be allowed to do so?
I mean, I know he probably would never WANT to do it - he knows as well as anyone that 'Enterprise' is basically a Trek thing - but in a strictly legal sense, would copyright rules prevent him from using the name?
I always assumed Paramount's copyright on fictional uses of the name 'Enterprise' hinged upon the "USS" prefix. Meaning, no other sci-fi franchise could feature a ship called "USS Enterprise", but since B5's starships have the prefix EAS (Earth Alliance Ship), then theoretically they would have been allowed to use it. (By the same reasoning, the Wing Commander series could theoretically have had an Enterprise, because their ships use 'TCS' as a prefix.) Is this correct, or not?
If, for whatever reason, JMS had wanted to put a ship into a B5 episode (or even a novel) and call it EAS Enterprise, would he be allowed to do so?
I mean, I know he probably would never WANT to do it - he knows as well as anyone that 'Enterprise' is basically a Trek thing - but in a strictly legal sense, would copyright rules prevent him from using the name?
I always assumed Paramount's copyright on fictional uses of the name 'Enterprise' hinged upon the "USS" prefix. Meaning, no other sci-fi franchise could feature a ship called "USS Enterprise", but since B5's starships have the prefix EAS (Earth Alliance Ship), then theoretically they would have been allowed to use it. (By the same reasoning, the Wing Commander series could theoretically have had an Enterprise, because their ships use 'TCS' as a prefix.) Is this correct, or not?
Considering there are several real ships by that name (at least two or three with the "U.S.S." prefix), I think any copyright claim by Paramount would be dubious at best.
Like you say though, in the context of a fictional sci-fi show it's just not a very good idea. It's far too recognisable.
Things like this may be partly why he ultimately chose to have the Earth ships (with only a few exceptions) named thematically. Mostly after Greeco-Roman mythological figures like the 'Agamemnon', 'Juno', 'Medusa', 'Charon' etc. and famous war leaders like the 'Churchill' and the 'Schwarzkopf' (though the latter probably dates the show a bit too much.)
I think the 'Hyperion' was actually named as a tip-of-the-hat to the old BBS or usenet board on which JMS posted about the show during development. As it was also the first Earth warship seen, it's likely he decided on the theme after the fact.
That was actually one of the underlying themes of the episode. That the Minbari had taken the creed to a somewhat more literal and fanatical degree than Valen probably intended.
Mind you, that type of mindset is well established on the show as being at the core of Minbari psychology. Delenn even says as much herself: -
"Among Minbari, one individual leads, but we move as one. We are at our best when we move together, and we are at our worst when we move together."
Also keep in mind that when the Anla'shok were first created, they were the vanguard of Valen's armies, fighting an enemy that seemed intent on wiping or dominating the whole galaxy. That's bound to bring out a little bit of the old berserker/kamakazi spirit. Doubly so considering how bound up in religion this whole thing was. (Valen walked around with what seemed like actual, literal angels flanking him for goodness sake!)
Then consider that the few senior Minbari Rangers left when the movie/pilot takes place are probably mostly the same old men who held tightly onto the old traditions in a time (prior to Sinclair taking command) when the Anla'shok were a shadow of their former selves and mostly shunned and ignored by the larger Minbari institutions (the Grey Council and the Council of Caste Elders, etc.)
Now, fast-forward a couple decades and they're suddenly in an environment where more and more non-Minbari were being inducted. There's bound to be a fear (even sub-conscious) that Minbari traditions and values in the Anla'shok may be eroded. It's no wonder some of them might be a little too dogmatic with their code.
Like you say though, in the context of a fictional sci-fi show it's just not a very good idea. It's far too recognisable.
Things like this may be partly why he ultimately chose to have the Earth ships (with only a few exceptions) named thematically. Mostly after Greeco-Roman mythological figures like the 'Agamemnon', 'Juno', 'Medusa', 'Charon' etc. and famous war leaders like the 'Churchill' and the 'Schwarzkopf' (though the latter probably dates the show a bit too much.)
I think the 'Hyperion' was actually named as a tip-of-the-hat to the old BBS or usenet board on which JMS posted about the show during development. As it was also the first Earth warship seen, it's likely he decided on the theme after the fact.
That was actually one of the underlying themes of the episode. That the Minbari had taken the creed to a somewhat more literal and fanatical degree than Valen probably intended.
Mind you, that type of mindset is well established on the show as being at the core of Minbari psychology. Delenn even says as much herself: -
"Among Minbari, one individual leads, but we move as one. We are at our best when we move together, and we are at our worst when we move together."
Also keep in mind that when the Anla'shok were first created, they were the vanguard of Valen's armies, fighting an enemy that seemed intent on wiping or dominating the whole galaxy. That's bound to bring out a little bit of the old berserker/kamakazi spirit. Doubly so considering how bound up in religion this whole thing was. (Valen walked around with what seemed like actual, literal angels flanking him for goodness sake!)
Then consider that the few senior Minbari Rangers left when the movie/pilot takes place are probably mostly the same old men who held tightly onto the old traditions in a time (prior to Sinclair taking command) when the Anla'shok were a shadow of their former selves and mostly shunned and ignored by the larger Minbari institutions (the Grey Council and the Council of Caste Elders, etc.)
Now, fast-forward a couple decades and they're suddenly in an environment where more and more non-Minbari were being inducted. There's bound to be a fear (even sub-conscious) that Minbari traditions and values in the Anla'shok may be eroded. It's no wonder some of them might be a little too dogmatic with their code.
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Agreed. Still, it's fun to think about - if EarthForce has an Enterprise, I wonder what kind of ship it is? An Explorer-class ship, perhaps? That seems to fit the name better than most other EF ship classes.
I'm not so sure. There was supposedly only a handful of Explorer-Class ships and they were presumably all named for historical explorers, hence the 'Cortez'. Probably something along the lines of Columbus, Amundsen, Cook, Magellan etc. Maybe even Armstrong, Hillary & Norgay.
If I *had* to pick a role for a theoretical 'EAS Enterprise', I'd probably go with some old Dilgar-War era cruiser. Earth's top of the line in it's day, but an old relic by the 2260's (ironically.) Probably pulled out of mothballs and destroyed at the Battle of the Line.
Actually CBS and Paramount would have trade mark, not copyright on the USS Enterprise (and on a few of the novels from the 90's, whenever the USS Enterprise is mentioned in the back cover copy, it is followed by a TM). And as there are ships named Enterprise dating back to the 1500's, this would be like using any other public domain thing. And with trade mark, if they differentiated it enough from the Enterprise's in Star Trek, then a ship named Enterprise could've appeared on Babylon 5. Both B5 and Star Trek have had ships named Excalibur.
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