Forgive me if this has been discussed already. I wouldn't presume to be the first to ask, but where the hell was the Enterprise during the Dominion War? What the hell?
AWOL Enterprise?
- Thread starter Chris_Moderato
- Start date
According to Inserrection, putting out brush fires (ie. small territorial disputes), acting as a diplomatic envoy to planets joining the Federation, and the usual scientific research.
Why Picard and the Enterprise weren't in command of a fleet of ships is beyond me. But perhapes that's considered an Admirals job. Or the Enterprise, being the Flagship, was used more for raising over all morale by doing deeds in every sector of the Federation rather than being confined to one area.
Regardless of the fact that the higher ups wanted to keep the new Enterprise E as a special ship relegated to the films only, they could have at least mentioned her heading up major offensives during the occasional stategy meeting we saw on DS9.
Why Picard and the Enterprise weren't in command of a fleet of ships is beyond me. But perhapes that's considered an Admirals job. Or the Enterprise, being the Flagship, was used more for raising over all morale by doing deeds in every sector of the Federation rather than being confined to one area.
Regardless of the fact that the higher ups wanted to keep the new Enterprise E as a special ship relegated to the films only, they could have at least mentioned her heading up major offensives during the occasional stategy meeting we saw on DS9.
While I completely agree with you guys...I have a sneaking suspicion that he might get a slightly different answer in the TNG forum.
Whadaya think?
Another thing to consider is that there were plenty of battles mentioned in passing. DS9 may have been the frontlines of the Dominion War, but the Enterprise may have been involved in major battles elsewhere on other fronts defending the core Federation worlds.
When the Breen attacked Earth, the Enterprise may have been involved in that skirmish. She may also have been involved in the battle to liberate Betazed for all we know.
As far as why the Enterprise was never mentioned as taking part in major Dominion War battles, very few ships actually really were. Most only received a mention if they were relatively close to the station...
When the Breen attacked Earth, the Enterprise may have been involved in that skirmish. She may also have been involved in the battle to liberate Betazed for all we know.
As far as why the Enterprise was never mentioned as taking part in major Dominion War battles, very few ships actually really were. Most only received a mention if they were relatively close to the station...
But this is the Enterprise we're talking about, the flagship of the fleet. It was mentioned many times (granted it was the Ent-D but still) prior to the Dominion War but a ship with such prominence as this one should be mentioned on occasion, not all the time but a mention here and there would work. Maybe say that the Enterprise commanded the Federation counterattack against the Breen at Earth. Minor mentions is all they had to do. Of course, it would have just been a fan wank.
^ I'm not so sure that it WOULD be a fanwank.
It is one thing to force a character or ship into a place it doesn't belong, just to give the fans something that some of them might think is 'cool'.
But this situation is quite the opposite - the Enterprise, flagship of the fleet, is noticeably absent from the Dominion War....to the point where it takes away any credibility they had as being the best and the brightest.
I mean, what army takes their best general out of the war? Or their best battalion?
And what captain of a supposed flagship would not insist upon being let into the battle? Out of good old fashioned pride, if nothing else.
If they were defending earth and were involved in the Breen attack, then I think it would have been great for there to have been a reference to it.
But as it stands right now, it looks like the flagship of the fleet sat out the Dominion War...while everyone else fought for their lives and for the safety of the entire Alpha Quadrant.
It is one thing to force a character or ship into a place it doesn't belong, just to give the fans something that some of them might think is 'cool'.
But this situation is quite the opposite - the Enterprise, flagship of the fleet, is noticeably absent from the Dominion War....to the point where it takes away any credibility they had as being the best and the brightest.
I mean, what army takes their best general out of the war? Or their best battalion?
And what captain of a supposed flagship would not insist upon being let into the battle? Out of good old fashioned pride, if nothing else.
If they were defending earth and were involved in the Breen attack, then I think it would have been great for there to have been a reference to it.
But as it stands right now, it looks like the flagship of the fleet sat out the Dominion War...while everyone else fought for their lives and for the safety of the entire Alpha Quadrant.
Not only is it the flagship, LaForge clearly stated in FC that the Enterprise is the most advanced starship in the fleet, and yet, I don't recall ever seeing a single Sovereign class the entire series.
Plecostomus
Commodore
On the other hand, maybe they were involved in some secret projects, behind the scenes, making things happen in support of the war.
Also there is the possibility that de-Borgging from First Contact the ship took a very long time because Starfleet wanted study every bit and piece. After that you end up with a rebuild and overhaul and then a shakedown and that could lead into InSUCKrection.
If I had a timeline of when First Contact, InSUCKrection and the Dominion War all fit together I could come up with something.
Also there is the possibility that de-Borgging from First Contact the ship took a very long time because Starfleet wanted study every bit and piece. After that you end up with a rebuild and overhaul and then a shakedown and that could lead into InSUCKrection.
If I had a timeline of when First Contact, InSUCKrection and the Dominion War all fit together I could come up with something.
IIRC, there were some TNG novels that explained what the Enterprise was doing during the war. I never read any of them, but
I think that the novel Battle of Betazed dealt with the Enterprise crew. I don't know if the whole ship was involved with that battle or if Deanna just swopped in to save the day. Or maybe they should up afterwards to help with the clean-up. Who knows? Like I said, I've never read any TNG novels that took place during the Dominion War.
Once again, objection: assumes flagship status not in evidence.
It was a big war. You know there were whole theaters of World War II that General Eisenhower never visited; that didn't mean he wasn't involved or even strain credibility any moer than the rest of World War II does.
Just thought of something but even though Nemesis is set around four years after the War, do you think it might have helped anything continuity wise if they made a comment regarding the Battle of Betazed and it's eventual release from Dominion occupation especially since Troi's own mother is something like Royalty on the planet and may have been involved one way or another with Dominion officials?
The Dominion War involved hundreds (if not thousands) of ships, and even as the Federation flagship, the Enterprise is only one vessel. I mentioned earlier that the crew of DS9 focused mainly on battles happening in their immediate vacinity and very rarely mentioned any ships by name unless they were within range of the station or was destroyed in action nearby. There actually weren't too many instances of ship name dropping otherwise.
Besides, most battles were mentioned only by where they took place and not by which ship led what taskforce. If you didn't know any better, you'd think the Defiant was the Federation flagship for all intents and purposes.
I'm not arguing that a mention of the Enterprise-E once wouldn't have been nice, but I could see where the ship could have been fighting the war elsewhere and not come up in a relevant topic of conversation on DS9...
Thinking the Enterprise was fighting in the Dominion War is just wishful thinking though. There is no evidence that the Enterprise was doing any fighting in the Dominion War. There are ways to make up excuses to try to pretend it was. But really, if it was actually fighting then it wouldn't be something that requires excuses to justify that no one noticed or cared that it was fighting. And if it was fighting then exactly the opposite should be true: it would have been extremly hard not to be hearing of what it's doing constantly as opposed to never hearing any darn thing about it fighting and having to fabricate wild speculations as to what one wishes it might be doing in order to for there even to be an imagined possibility that it was fighting.
On the other hand, all that provides plenty of circumstantial evidence that it wasn't doing jack all during the Dominion War.
On the other hand, all that provides plenty of circumstantial evidence that it wasn't doing jack all during the Dominion War.
...That is, assuming that ST:INS took place during the war.
Indeed, the fact that the ship was not involved in combat would suggest that the movie happened after the war. Ditto for the facts that the Dominion was ready to negotiate, that Worf was free from his DS9 obligations, and that nobody even remotely suggested that there was any fighting going on anywhere.
To be sure, DS9 virtually never was in the front lines. The wormhole was not a "front": after being briefly lost to the Dominion but mined shut, it was recovered to Federation control but was rendered unuseable and strategically worthless by the intervention of the Prophets. Indeed, no fighting is known to have happened at DS9 or anywhere near during the rest of the war.
Granted, Bajor was one of the locations closest to the Cardassian home turf. But apparently, the Dominion was not interested in fighting about Cardassian home turf, preferring to engage the enemy elsewhere. It appeared as if Bajor and Cardassia were the 24th century equivalent to Washington and Richmond, two hostile hubs sitting next to each other but seldom actually exchanging shots.
Had the E-E loitered near DS9, she would have missed most of the action.
To be sure, most navies do take their best ships out of the action. Or did, in the battleship era of naval fighting, chiefly in the two World Wars. A capital warship was far more powerful a threat when not sent out to fight.
However, I don't think we have to suggest that the E-E was part of a "fleet in being" type force being held back in a threatening manner. We could simply accept that our DS9 heroes were not very centrally placed in the Dominion War.
Admiral Ross might have known where the E-E sailed. Captain Sisko need not have had a clue.
On one hand, "most advanced" need not mean "most combat-capable" - it might mean the exact opposite. On the other hand, the very fact that the E-E was cutting edge would seem to suggest that Starfleet didn't have many ships of that type in its possession.
There's that, too...
It's not as if Picard's third starship command ever involved anything particularly flagshippy. Save perhaps for the diplomatic foray to Romulus - but that was rather explicitly claimed to be because Picard's ship was the nearest to that crisis zone (a fact no doubt engineered by Shinzon).
Timo Saloniemi
Yes Navaros, we all know how much you hate TNG. Now leave your bias at the door and think logically.
DS9 was about DS9 and the staff of DS9, not the crew of the Enterprise. It's going to focus more on the crew of DS9 and tell stories about THEM.
The Ent-E was off fighting in the other parts of the Federation during the war, and it wasn't mentioned because...well, what would the point be if they weren't going to go all the way and make it a true crossover? That's just teasing.
The ENt_E was never seen due to the "Movie Rules": The movies are to have at least one starship exclusive to the movie series and ONLY the movie series. They chose the Refit-Constitution for the TOS movies and the Sovereign for the TNG movies. That's why you never see a Refit-Constitution or a Sovereign outside the Movies.
So please, stop your nonsense over how you think the TNG crew aren't fighting to defend the Federation and just use simple logic.
That's a rather limited viewpoint. Lack of evidence over something with no real facts to the contrary means only that it can't be proven or disproven. It enters the realm of opinion at that point and I do believe I said such. You're entitled to your opinion that the Enterprise did nothing during the Dominion War, but I have a different opinion.
I disagree with that. See bottom.
And this proves...what? That DS9 and the wormwhole were things the Federation and the Dominion fought over?
I'm sorry, Timo, but I think you took my definition of the frontlines far more literally than I did. My definition of the frontlines were all the sectors--including the Bajor Sector--where there was direct conflict between Federation and Dominion forces over territory. I include DS9 as being part of the Bajor Sector, so I consider it on the frontlines as it did fluctate back and forth between Federation and Dominion control.
Ever heard of All Quiet on the Western Front?
