Not meaning to sound rude but are the safety standards like with air travel there?
Aviation Geeks unite?! Anybody else care about planes here?
- Thread starter { Emilia }
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Not meaning to sound rude but are the safety standards like with air travel there?
No idea, but we witnessed the effect of negligent airport management in South Korea only a few months ago. I'd be hesitant to jump to conclusions though.
That's true. Let's wait and see what we find out good idea
Is it me, or should the aircraft have more than a single RAT included into it's base design at this point?
That seems like a recipe for disaster to have only 1x RAT to depend on in a worst case scenario.
Imagine if they had a few more, they might've been able to recover.
Especially given the Mostly Electric Nature of the DreamLiner.
That seems like a recipe for disaster to have only 1x RAT to depend on in a worst case scenario.
Imagine if they had a few more, they might've been able to recover.
Especially given the Mostly Electric Nature of the DreamLiner.
The air speed was too low anyway so the RAT would not have been very effective. I understand that it only provides power for a limited number of critical systems and it wouldn't help with the lack of thrust and lack of lift problem, which seem to be the main issues here. The takeoff should perhaps have been aborted, but I don't know the protocol for deciding that or at what stage it becomes impossible. I heard it reported that birdstrike has been ruled out. Something else appears to have compromised the engine performance. Again, this is just my possibly poorly informed speculation.
Don't go to YouTube like I did....... lots of videos, lots of opinions on this event
Not going to post any more, this guy's a pilot so that's why I am posting this one only.
Not going to post any more, this guy's a pilot so that's why I am posting this one only.
He has a very good theory.
The Co-Pilot screwed up on retracting the landing gear and instead retracted the flaps.
Then they were losing lift and they get confused and stalls right after take-off due to the landing gear creating a lot of drag.
If that is the case, maybe there should be a automatic Landing Gear retraction protocol on take-off to avoid the possibility of creating too much drag and potentially entering the stall region right after take-off due to hitting the wrong button.
That seems like a scenario you can easily test in the DreamLiner simulator.
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It would be difficult to confuse the landing gear and flap controls as they're not in close proximity to each other, but, apparently, it isn't completely unknown on aircraft other than the 787. While tired I have poured orange juice on my cornflakes.
The RAT deployment is key, I feel. There were reportedly problems with the aircraft's electrical system on the immediately prior flight, which makes it suspect, but how would that affect engine performance and/or flap deployment? That's enough inexpert speculation, I think.
I agree with the comments in this video:
The problem likely developed on the runway during take-off. A wing section has been recovered with flaps deployed so pilot error is looking unlikely. Something affected the available engine thrust, which is what the pilot supposedly reported.
The RAT deployment is key, I feel. There were reportedly problems with the aircraft's electrical system on the immediately prior flight, which makes it suspect, but how would that affect engine performance and/or flap deployment? That's enough inexpert speculation, I think.
I agree with the comments in this video:
The problem likely developed on the runway during take-off. A wing section has been recovered with flaps deployed so pilot error is looking unlikely. Something affected the available engine thrust, which is what the pilot supposedly reported.
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Another reason I detest twinjets
A different YT video I saw, the video shows the original crash footage from a different angle shows the RAT deployed when the 787 was falling/stalling it's way to it's inevitable fate.
But if there were electrical system problems reported on the previous flight, they should immediately grounded the plane and figure it out.
Given how much of the entire systems run on pure Electricity to function and they only have 1x RAT deployed in the worst case scenario, it seems that they have very limited controll-ability in that "Worst Case"-scenario.
I wonder how much more control they could have it there were more RAT's installed along the aircraft.
If they had a matching one on the Port side of the fuselage to match the existing StarBoard side RAT.
Maybe add in 4x more RAT's inside the Flap Fairings like the A380, 2x on each wing on the Port/StarBoard sides.
This way you have a total of 6x RAT's working in parallel to generate power.
That should give you a better chance of recovery since you would have more Electrical Power to handle whatever problem you're in.
Giving you more chance to recover from whatever problem you might be encountering?
Given the Electrificiation of future Airliner design, I can see the push for the STARC-ABL Ducted Electric Propulsor on the aft of the fuselage.
In a worst case scenario, the Propulsor might have enough power to give a bit more lift to delay any stall/fall to buy time for recovery from whatever emergency situation you might be in?
I see a fundamental misunderstanding of the RAT is prevalent here. It doesn't magically provide lift or thrust. It is a prop on a stalk stuck into the wind so the spinning of the prop generates sufficient electricity and hydraulic pressure to allow an aircraft which has flamed out at 35,000 to have minimal instruments and power for the control surfaces down to (hopefully) a field. Having more than needed simply takes weight from the cargo or passenger load. It's not going to do a thing for the bird caught in a lost thrust Kobiyashi Maru like this one. I wonder how the engines were performing, as a video showed the 787 mushing into a stall and the RAT could be clearly heard, when it should have been drowned out by the engines. The RAT is automatically deployed by the 787 when certain emergency conditions exist.
Passengers on the same plane in the previous flight which landed in Ahmedabad complained of egregious electronics issues like non working consoles, no A/C and no way to summon attendants. The 787 is primarily all electric, btw.
Passengers on the same plane in the previous flight which landed in Ahmedabad complained of egregious electronics issues like non working consoles, no A/C and no way to summon attendants. The 787 is primarily all electric, btw.
I know that, that's not why I care about having more RAT's, it's to power the Electrical Systems so that they have more power to allow more control options to regain control in the critical situation.
But in the case where the base design of the DreamLiner removes most of the Hydraulic Pressure to be largely independent Electro-Mechanical Localized Electrically Activated & Run systems.
Having more Electricity might be what's needed to get those things working.
Sacrificing a few passengers / cargo loads might be the difference in the worst case scenario to saving the plane & lives to going down.
That should've been more than enough reason to ground the plane and take it into full inspection.
Especially now that this case has happened, there should be a new directive that any Electrical issues like this should be extra reason to be more careful on maintainenance and figure out those electrical issues ahead of time, even if that means taking the plane into the depot for maintainenance more often.
All more RATs are going to do is cause drag. As @MarcKle196 stated, they provide backup electrical power not thrust and are not really intended to be deployed at low altitude. I'm suspecting fuel contamination as happened with a Cathay Pacific flight at altitude.
The Landing Gears & Dead Engines would cause more drag than the RAT's.
The fact that the Landing Gears didn't go up was a major sign of trouble and much more Drag.
More-so than any amount of Drag that the RAT's could've added by itself.
Hopefully, the investigation should reveal the cause soon and put a stop to our fatuous armchair speculation.
