Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

[Gavin70]

I am going to help you.

Maybe Stark gets better in the next Marvel movie

As other commenters have said, I hope not because his story really is complete at this stage. But then this is a comic book movie universe after all and nobody's ever really dead in comics. If RDJ wants to come back at some stage, and Marvel is willing to pay for him, I don't think there's any doubt that they'd find some way to resurrect him.

 

[theenglish]

It has to be. If the snap eliminated all lifeforms without discrimination at all, then through sheer probability statistics hardly any humans would have disappeared. It would almost exclusively have been bacteria and other single celled organisms.

And that really would have wreaked havoc on the entire ecosystem.

 

[USS Firefly]

As other commenters have said, I hope not because his story really is complete at this stage. But then this is a comic book movie universe after all and nobody's ever really dead in comics. If RDJ wants to come back at some stage, and Marvel is willing to pay for him, I don't think there's any doubt that they'd find some way to resurrect him.

I didn't mean that I hope Stark is going back, that why I put a smiley at the end of my post.
I was done with Stark after Spider-Man homecoming, with how he treated Peter

 

[thribs]

I didn't mean that I hope Stark is going back, that why I put a smiley at the end of my post.
I was done with Stark after Spider-Man homecoming, with how he treated Peter

Yeah. Treating Peter like he’s some side kick to Iron Man is wrong. Spider-Man is supposed to beat the living crap out of him.

 

[USS Firefly]

Yeah. Treating Peter like he’s some side kick to Iron Man is wrong. Spider-Man is supposed to beat the living crap out of him.

And even though peter has powers he is still just a 15/16 year old boy, who looks up to Stark.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Forbes has an excellent piece detailing how The Avengers actually broke the universe twice.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...from-the-damage-done-by-avengers-endgame/amp/

 

[Reverend]

I keep seeing the complaint that the full implications of the restoration not being explored in detail in the last 10 mins of Endgame is some kind of fatal flaw, or lazy oversight and, it really isn't. The movie wasn't about addressing the consequences of it's own third act, it was about addressing the consequences of the previous movie's third act.
Ergo, it's something for other stories to explore later down the line, presumably starting with 'SM:FFH'.

That aside; the implication that all of the negative consequences are the "fault" of the Avengers is just silly. When a doctor or a nurse sets a broken bone, do you blame them for not preventing the break in the first place and complain that they've just condemned you to several weeks in a cast? Well you might if you're one of those overly litigious arseholes, but you get the point.
I mean just from a storytelling point of view, what's the more interesting and valuable message: that pain and trauma and consequences can all be wished away with a magic wand? Or that pain and trauma and consequences can be endured, that we can get back up on our feet, get better and keep moving forward?

 

[JD]

Inhumans are in AoS as well. Even more so there.

Sure, but at this point when they hear the word Inhuman, most people are probably going to think of the show with their name in the title.

As other commenters have said, I hope not because his story really is complete at this stage. But then this is a comic book movie universe after all and nobody's ever really dead in comics. If RDJ wants to come back at some stage, and Marvel is willing to pay for him, I don't think there's any doubt that they'd find some way to resurrect him.

Most of this would be pretty easy to get around if they go with the Stark, since they could just treat it as a computer program that just has a holographic interface that looks and sounds like Tony Stark, without it actually being Tony Stark.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I keep seeing the complaint that the full implications of the restoration not being explored in detail in the last 10 mins of Endgame is some kind of fatal flaw, or lazy oversight and, it really isn't. The movie wasn't about addressing the consequences of it's own third act, it was about addressing the consequences of the previous movie's third act.
Ergo, it's something for other stories to explore later down the line, presumably starting with 'SM:FFH'.

That aside; the implication that all of the negative consequences are the "fault" of the Avengers is just silly. When a doctor or a nurse sets a broken bone, do you blame them for not preventing the break in the first place and complain that they've just condemned you to several weeks in a cast? Well you might if you're one of those overly litigious arseholes, but you get the point.
I mean just from a storytelling point of view, what's the more interesting and valuable message: that pain and trauma and consequences can all be wished away with a magic wand? Or that pain and trauma and consequences can be endured, that we can get back up on our feet, get better and keep moving forward?

YMMV.

I'm one of the biggest MCU fans on this board, and I gave this movie a c+. I knocked down two full grades solely on the basis of the 5-year jump, That's how little it works for me and that's how much it affected my enjoyment of the story. It's the only Avengers movie that I only saw once. I might see it again if some friends want to see it with me, but I'm not going to go out of my way to see it again in theater. Movies with fantastical elements like the MCU movies really only work if the human stuff feels real and the world their in feels real (even alien worlds, in context as such). I just didn't buy what the world would be like after the jump. The world doesn't just recover from something like that. It didn't feel real. And Starks solution was just as bad as Thanos's solution.

Again, YMMV.

 

[Captrek]

That aside; the implication that all of the negative consequences are the "fault" of the Avengers is just silly. When a doctor or a nurse sets a broken bone, do you blame them for not preventing the break in the first place and complain that they've just condemned you to several weeks in a cast? Well you might if you're one of those overly litigious arseholes, but you get the point.

If you believe one popular theory, Steve Rogers has been there in the background for the last 70 years, knowing full well what was coming but never lifting a finger to try to prevent it or warn anyone. So if you believe that theory, there was at least one Avenger to blame.

Oh yeah, and Thor should have gone for the head. That makes two.

 

[Reverend]

If you believe one popular theory, Steve Rogers has been there in the background for the last 70 years, knowing full well what was coming but never lifting a finger to try to prevent it or warn anyone. So if you believe that theory, there was at least one Avenger to blame.

Oh yeah, and Thor should have gone for the head. That makes two.

By the movie's own very specifically described rules of time travel, that simply isn't possible. Indeed, the fact that something like this *mimes strangling baby Thanos* won't do a thing to change the present was kinda central to the plot. So no, I don't buy into that theory.

In all likelihood, Steve lived a life in a timeline where Zola was thrown right back into his hole before he could do any more mischief, where SHIELD never fell (and there was probably a SWORD too depending on how much he shared with Peggy) and the infinity stones could never fall into Thanos's hands.

YMMV.

I'm one of the biggest MCU fans on this board, and I gave this movie a c+. I knocked down two full grades solely on the basis of the 5-year jump, That's how little it works for me and that's how much it affected my enjoyment of the story. It's the only Avengers movie that I only saw once. I might see it again if some friends want to see it with me, but I'm not going to go out of my way to see it again in theater. Movies with fantastical elements like the MCU movies really only work if the human stuff feels real and the world their in feels real (even alien worlds, in context as such). I just didn't buy what the world would be like after the jump. The world doesn't just recover from something like that. It didn't feel real. And Starks solution was just as bad as Thanos's solution.

Again, YMMV.

I didn't see a "recovered" world at all. I saw a broken one stuck in a perpetual state of shock and mourning.
Sure, for some, life goes on, that's what happens after death and disaster. For others, it did not. Most were somewhere in-between.
This is why the movie showed us both Tony and Clint's drastically different reactions to the loss.

 

[PsychoPere]

By the movie's own very specifically described rules of time travel, that simply isn't possible. Indeed, the fact that something like this *mimes strangling baby Thanos* won't do a thing to change the present was kinda central to the plot. So no, I don't buy into that theory.

Apparently this isn't quite as settled as it should be.

The screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely contend that Steve closed a loop and was always Peggy's husband.

However, the Russo brothers state that Steve did create an alternate timeline.

And then there's Kevin Feige that said in a recent reddit AMAA that he has a definitive answer to this question - but declined to share that answer.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Because in all likelihood that answer will be revealed in the final Phase Three movie - Spider-man: Far From Home.

So you'll just have to wait.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Apparently this isn't quite as settled as it should be.

The screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely contend that Steve closed a loop and was always Peggy's husband.

However, the Russo brothers state that Steve did create an alternate timeline.

And then there's Kevin Feige that said in a recent reddit AMAA that he has a definitive answer to this question - but declined to share that answer.

In other words, like all things literature, film, television, and stage should be, it's open to interpretation.

 

[theenglish]

In other words, like all things literature, film, television, and stage should be, it's open to interpretation.

Yep--like with all stories. If this were a stand alone movie, we could all reach our own conclusion; however, it seems that we will get some kind of answer in upcoming movies. Whether that is Spider-Man or in Phase IV, we only have to wait a month or so.

 

[Anwar]

Yep--like with all stories. If this were a stand alone movie, we could all reach our own conclusion; however, it seems that we will get some kind of answer in upcoming movies. Whether that is Spider-Man or in Phase IV, we only have to wait a month or so.

So they did the proper businessman thing and whet our appetites for the next chapter.

Awesome.

 

[Claudia]

Because in all likelihood that answer will be revealed in the final Phase Three movie - Spider-man: Far From Home.

I'd rather say that the answer will come in the Dr Strange movie - he's the one dealing with all those multiverses/divergent timelines etc after all. Or in the Bucky&Sam-series.

As a character Peter isn't close to Steve (and those surrounding him like Bucky, Sam etc), so (even if the movie deals with an alternate reality) why should he know or learn personally what Steve's been up to in the past (and which past for that matter)?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I'd rather say that the answer will come in the Dr Strange movie - he's the one dealing with all those multiverses/divergent timelines etc after all. Or in the Bucky&Sam-series.

As a character Peter isn't close to Steve (and those surrounding him like Bucky, Sam etc), so (even if the movie deals with an alternate reality) why should he know or learn personally what Steve's been up to in the past (and which past for that matter)?

Because Spiderman FFH is going to involve the multiverse and odds are the explanation for that will settle the question without ever mentioning Steve's name. Unless the multiverse trailer is a fakeout.

 

[Photoman15]

I just got back, it was amazing.

I laughed, I cried, I got superhero goosebumps, all of it.

I can't say enough good things, thor getting to talk to his mum when he so, so needed it was touching.

Nebula (one of my favourites) gets loads to do and is great

Hawkeye and Ant man are done justice

Going back into old scenes is incredible

The final battle is one of the best things I've ever seen on screen, and when the core avengers backup arrives it's just... wow

Anyone "worried" about captain marvel need not be, she's actually underused in the movie and a lot more likeable in this with a sparkle in her eye than in captain marvel, Brie did well with what she was given here.

Only things I didn't like, black window dying, I so wanted her to get her own film, I'm really sad about that, and also Iron man dying but in his case I understand why.

I thought that infinity war would be the highpoint of the MCU but this just..about... surpassed it imo

I imagine so. Maybe that’s how they save Black Widow as well.

Just got to see it. I'm on page 4 of this thread so if someone already brought this up, sorry, but....
I was thinking that when Steve Rogers was supposed to return, he still stay behind with Peggy, but in the suit (and then revealed) is Black Widow. I mean, he brought the Soul Stone back to whence it came so he could have traded it for Romanov's' soul.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It would have been bad for pace to have a drawn out epilogue. It’s the sort of thing maybe worth exploring in side content.

And I’m not sure a story about legal nuances about property ownership makes sense in a Marvel movie.