Avengers: Age of Ultron- Grading & Discussion (spoilerific)

[Relayer1]

Sometimes, a premise just doesn't grab you and Ultron was one of those for me. I've tried to grade the movie on it's merits rather than my lack of enthusiasm - for me it was good, a solid movie without the joy I got from the first one or the interest 3 and 4 hold for me. It's a 'B'.

With regard to 'the death', I'm starting to worry about the way they're going through heroes and supporting characters (I'm looking at you Daredevil) in the MCU - it's a lot harder to sell returns from the dead in films than it is in comics !

 

[Reverend]

It just occurred to me: was the New Avengers facility being in Upstate New York supposed to be a swipe at the X-Men?

Sometimes, a premise just doesn't grab you and Ultron was one of those for me. I've tried to grade the movie on it's merits rather than my lack of enthusiasm - for me it was good, a solid movie without the joy I got from the first one or the interest 3 and 4 hold for me. It's a 'B'.

With regard to 'the death', I'm starting to worry about the way they're going through heroes and supporting characters (I'm looking at you Daredevil) in the MCU - it's a lot harder to sell returns from the dead in films than it is in comics !

There's no danger of them running out of supporting characters anytime soon. Hell, in this movie they were practically queueing up around the block

 

[FPAlpha]

Sometimes, a premise just doesn't grab you and Ultron was one of those for me. I've tried to grade the movie on it's merits rather than my lack of enthusiasm - for me it was good, a solid movie without the joy I got from the first one or the interest 3 and 4 hold for me. It's a 'B'.

With regard to 'the death', I'm starting to worry about the way they're going through heroes and supporting characters (I'm looking at you Daredevil) in the MCU - it's a lot harder to sell returns from the dead in films than it is in comics !

But i don't mind really.. since we're in a spoiler thread i'll be open about Quicksilver's death because i really didn't expect it and that scene was one of the few great ones.

I also don't mind that the movies (so far) don't follow the comicbook way of resurrecting heroes once they kill them off (not that it has happened that much in the MCU anyway) because that's and old and very boring trick in the comics.

Another thing that i fell for too were the trailers and their sometimes misleading you.

First time i fell for it was Cap 2 when we see the carrier crash and everybody assumed it was the villain of the movie that caused it.. the truth was a little bit different.

The Avengers 2 trailer showed us a broken shield and together with the spoilered scene of the Mjolnir pickup some (including me) speculated that Cap gets to pick up the Hammer as a replacement.. well, sadly that was not the case (and i was a little disappointed that it was only a vision of Tony induced by Scarlet Witch).

 

[JoeZhang]

Bit of randomness - ran into Tom Hardy in a cafe in Liverpool, he was off to seen Avengers.

 

[hux]

Fairly disappointing C+

It seemed a bit like they just threw it together and went down the action route. For a brief moment, it looked like Stark might go on an interesting journey of self discovery but no, didn't happen. Instead we get some pretty standard stuff and it all just felt a little empty to me.

Then we have the problem of Ultron. Now I love Whedon and I love the humour (DC could learn a lot) but when the bad guy is making amusing comments and in a very modern way of speaking, it just doesn't help define him. For a show like Buffy it works but for a blockbuster movie, it slightly undermines the character for me. When the Avengers are making jokes, goofing off or making pop culture references, it works pretty well but not for Ultron who was just too emotive throughout. Consequently, he lacks any sense of genuine threat. It always felt like.....yeah they'll eventually beat him, whatever

Too many jokes (or at least it just fell like too many) and the speech Hawkeyes gives Wanda is far too self referential and not remotely necessary. Another joke that missed

Then there's Vision. Was I the only one who thought he just looked utterly ridiculous. The make up seemed painfully comical and distracting

The Hulk continues to be the most interesting character in the group and yet weirdly, they don't seem capable of making a quality stand alone film for him. Ruffalo was very smart casting (certainly worthy of a film of his own) and the only guy in the group who seems to have any depth or a sense of the absurd

 

[Ol' Scratch]

I didn't understand Ultron at all.

"Hey, I'm conscious. Huh, guess I'll be evil now for no particular reason. Jarvis, time for you to go die in a fire. Okay, time to hate on Stark and the Avengers as a whole, also for no particular reason. I'll also bitch about being a puppet even though, again, I've only been self-aware for about 30 seconds, and... oh hell, while I'm at it, I think I'll destroy the world, too. Cause, you know, Stark himself has issues telling the difference between saving and destroying the world, so I should, too. Because, reasons."

What?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I didn't understand Ultron at all.

"Hey, I'm conscious. Huh, guess I'll be evil now for no particular reason. Jarvis, time for you to go die in a fire. Okay, time to hate on Stark and the Avengers as a whole, also for no particular reason. I'll also bitch about being a puppet even though, again, I've only been self-aware for about 30 seconds, and... oh hell, while I'm at it, I think I'll destroy the world, too. Cause, you know, Stark himself has issues telling the difference between saving and destroying the world, so I should, too. Because, reasons."

What?

I think that was how Ultron was supposed to be from the start. He was this newborn thing, that downloaded a stack of knowledge and came up with a very ill-conceived and skewed world view very quickly. James Spader said it himself in an early interview. It also probably didn't help that he was an AI developed from Chitauri technology. From what I remember, the scene between Vision and Ultron at the end of the film explains Ultrons point of view with Vision giving him the perspective that Humanity isn't all bad and that despite the fact that yes, we are probably doomed, it's a priviledge to be among us.

The same criticisms could be directed to Loki as well. His motivation is his jealously of Thor. Loki in spite of his origins as a frost giant welp, was loved and nurtured in Asgard. Yet he becomes the spoilt brat who gets angry and tries to destroy and conquer planets because he can't get his way. Loki is considered one of the finest villains in the MCU yet his motivations are fairly shallow.

 

[Reverend]

My reading on Ultron is that he took the line "peace on Earth" a tad more literally that it was intended.

Not sure it can be seriously claimed that he's from Chitauri technology. Pretty sure that's just something they put out there to obscure the face that yes, the sceptre did indeed contain the mind gem.
Speaking of, I liked how they showed that the gem itself contained an actual mind. I wonder if there's a long term plan for that? If it weren't for the rights issues my top two guesses would be Galactus or the Phoenix.

 

[FPAlpha]

My reading on Ultron is that he took the line "peace on Earth" a tad more literally that it was intended.

Not sure it can be seriously claimed that he's from Chitauri technology. Pretty sure that's just something they put out there to obscure the face that yes, the sceptre did indeed contain the mind gem.
Speaking of, I liked how they showed that the gem itself contained an actual mind. I wonder if there's a long term plan for that? If it weren't for the rights issues my top two guesses would be Galactus or the Phoenix.

Might be that i was too tired when i saw it (up at 5.30 am, work and then off to see the movie at around 11.30 pm) but if i remember correctly Ultron's AI stems from the Mind Gem itself and not Chitauri technology. Stark and Banner discover that the Gem itself has an intelligence which they start to combine with Jarvis, fail to do so initially and leave the project when suddenly it works (why is never explained) and the Ultron AI comes into existence.

Concerning the Infinity gems they have plans for them of course.. it's heavily hinted in 2 scenes. First was the montage of the gems themselves that have been discovered, they even arrange them in a line and the second is the after credits scene with Thanos himself who picks up the (at this time non-gem empty) Infinity gauntlet (wasn't the gauntlet in the high security Asgard vault in the first Thor movie as an easter egg alongside the Eye of Agamotto? Will be interesting to see if they ignore this or incorporate it into the Thanos story).

However i don't see a connection with Galactus or Phoenix as they are galactic forces of their own, separate from the Infinity stones (at least in the comics). Since both Galactus and Phoenix are IP's that Marvel has licensed outside (Galactus belongs to the FF license and Phoenix belongs to the X-Men license) it is very unlikely that Marvel can use them.

Then again we will see Spidey in the MCU so anything can happen if the studios agree.

All this ties into the Avengers Infinity War two parter set for 2018 and 2019 if i'm correct.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

For some reason I thought the AI that Ultron came from was derived from the AI that once would have controlled the Leviathan that Hydra was studying. Oh well, guess i'll just have to go see it again to pick up all that I missed

 

[Trekkin]

Saw it a few hours ago.

I liked it all up. Like most of Phase 2 (except for Thor 2), it was a bit darker and less 'fun' than the first. There was also a lot of set-up for Thor Ragnarok, Civil War, Infinity War etc. Luckily, that stuff handled eons better than it was in IM2. My major bone was that it got a little muddled in the middle.

But the characters are still good and develop well, some of the more neglected characters from the first had heaps more to do, there's a few twists that will completely side-swipe comic fans (in a good way), and the villain/new characters were great.

Spoiler: silly nitpicks

I admit, I have mixed feelings about the Vision make-up. I think it's the human eyes that put me off. There's also a prominent shot in Thors flashback where I'm sure Loki was meant to appear, but got cut (a hooded figure moving amongst the crowd). Lack of Loki isn't exactly a bad thing, it's just that pointless shot really stood out.

 

[Mage]

An Avengers-movie can be completey over the top and nonsense for me, since that's what it's sorta supposed to be. And I loved it.

Spader was amazing as Ultron, his performance was magnificent.
Renner stole the show as Hawkeye, both as a character and his witty humor.
The jokes in this movie had me in stitches half of the time, with only one joke being a bit to much for me.

I don't watch a movie like this with my critique cap on. Stuff like this, isn't ment to make sense or be taken seriously. If you do, you're gonna have a bad time with any Superhero movie really. Stuff like this is 'sit back and enjoy the ride' kinda stuff, and it does that perfectly.

Also, can't wait to read Flying Spaghetti Monster's murdering review of this, after which he's gonna buy the movie when it comes and analyze every scene, hating it with a passion, and watching the movie so often to find more things he hates, that ultimatly, he will watch it more than us.

 

[Ethros]

Also, can't wait to read Flying Spaghetti Monster's murdering review of this, after which he's gonna buy the movie when it comes and analyze every scene, hating it with a passion, and watching the movie so often to find more things he hates, that ultimatly, he will watch it more than us.

Ha, his review will be about 15 paragraphs, I gurantee it.


And yeah wasn't it said Tom Hiddleston/Loki would be in this a few months ago? I presume his scenes got cut?

 

[Samurai8472]

Extended version will be out on blu-ray

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=119592

 

[Reverend]

Just a thought, be does anyone else think it was a bad idea to keep both the gauntlet and the tesseract on Asgard? I mean I assume that post credit scene was meant to be Thanos in Odin's weapons vault, which probably means he's already made his move on Loki and Thor will likely be returning to his home in ruins again. That's assuming of course that scene is happening "now".

So that makes four of the six stones accounted for (space, power, mind and did they ever confirm if the Either was the soul or reality gem?) I'm assuming the other two (time and either soul or reality) will turn up in 'Doctor Strange' & 'Captain Marvel'.

I can't believe it just now occurs to me, but with the Infinity War split into two parts a year apart, does that mean the war will be ongoing across the MCU for a whole year? Suddenly Captain Marvel 7 the Inhumans movies being smack in the middle of that makes a whole lot of sense.
I wonder how that'll effect AoS, if it's still on the air in three to four years?

My reading on Ultron is that he took the line "peace on Earth" a tad more literally that it was intended.

Not sure it can be seriously claimed that he's from Chitauri technology. Pretty sure that's just something they put out there to obscure the face that yes, the sceptre did indeed contain the mind gem.
Speaking of, I liked how they showed that the gem itself contained an actual mind. I wonder if there's a long term plan for that? If it weren't for the rights issues my top two guesses would be Galactus or the Phoenix.

However i don't see a connection with Galactus or Phoenix as they are galactic forces of their own, separate from the Infinity stones (at least in the comics). Since both Galactus and Phoenix are IP's that Marvel has licensed outside (Galactus belongs to the FF license and Phoenix belongs to the X-Men license) it is very unlikely that Marvel can use them.

The only reason I suggested those two at all is because they're the only ridiculously powerful and destructive cosmic beings in the Marvel universe that I'm aware of (though I'm far from well read in such things!) But like I said, the right issues probably put them both off limits.

A shame because I think the Phoenix would have suited it quite well, being a more elemental cosmic force than an actual character and that it already is associated with a (admittedly non-infinity) gemstone in the comics. It wouldn't be too much of a leap to make the mind stone and the m'kraan crystal one and the same. Much like the cosmic cube and the tesseract seem to have been merged into one thing for the MCU.
Also, the mind crystal was yellow, which would seem appropriate, no?

 

[Dales]

I give it a B- but i cant say i am not surprised. the film is mixed for me but above all the film only confirms why I dislike disney owning marvel. disney has stripped marvel of his maturity, depth and seriousness and dumb it down for kids. the film had excessive action sequences, little story and oh my gosh the jokes, humor and one liners was just too much that it became unforgivable, again reminding why I hated guardians of the galaxy.

age of ultron confirms why I don't want marvel disney to ever gets the film rights of xmen back.

 

[DWF]

Just a thought, be does anyone else think it was a bad idea to keep both the gauntlet and the tesseract on Asgard? I mean I assume that post credit scene was meant to be Thanos in Odin's weapons vault, which probably means he's already made his move on Loki and Thor will likely be returning to his home in ruins again. That's assuming of course that scene is happening "now".

So that makes four of the six stones accounted for (space, power, mind and did they ever confirm if the Either was the soul or reality gem?) I'm assuming the other two (time and either soul or reality) will turn up in 'Doctor Strange' & 'Captain Marvel'.

I can't believe it just now occurs to me, but with the Infinity War split into two parts a year apart, does that mean the war will be ongoing across the MCU for a whole year? Suddenly Captain Marvel 7 the Inhumans movies being smack in the middle of that makes a whole lot of sense.
I wonder how that'll effect AoS, if it's still on the air in three to four years?

My reading on Ultron is that he took the line "peace on Earth" a tad more literally that it was intended.

Not sure it can be seriously claimed that he's from Chitauri technology. Pretty sure that's just something they put out there to obscure the face that yes, the sceptre did indeed contain the mind gem.
Speaking of, I liked how they showed that the gem itself contained an actual mind. I wonder if there's a long term plan for that? If it weren't for the rights issues my top two guesses would be Galactus or the Phoenix.

However i don't see a connection with Galactus or Phoenix as they are galactic forces of their own, separate from the Infinity stones (at least in the comics). Since both Galactus and Phoenix are IP's that Marvel has licensed outside (Galactus belongs to the FF license and Phoenix belongs to the X-Men license) it is very unlikely that Marvel can use them.

The only reason I suggested those two at all is because they're the only ridiculously powerful and destructive cosmic beings in the Marvel universe that I'm aware of (though I'm far from well read in such things!) But like I said, the right issues probably put them both off limits.

A shame because I think the Phoenix would have suited it quite well, being a more elemental cosmic force than an actual character and that it already is associated with a (admittedly non-infinity) gemstone in the comics. It wouldn't be too much of a leap to make the mind stone and the m'kraan crystal one and the same. Much like the cosmic cube and the tesseract seem to have been merged into one thing for the MCU.
Also, the mind crystal was yellow, which would seem appropriate, no?

I'd say the Aether is the reality gem, the Tesseract is the space gem, the power gem is on Xandar and the mind gem is in the Vision. Adam Warlock is the traditional owner of the soul gem and we know that Warlock's cocoon was a part of the Collector's collection. I do think that the time gem will turn up in the Doctor Strange movie. But the guantlet would appear to be useless without the gems to power it. And it my feeling that Thanos allowed Loki to take the throne from Odin, so I do think that Thor: Raganok will play an important part in the overall storyline.

I think it's unlikely that the Captain Marvel and Inhuman movies will have anything to do with the Infinity War two parter, the two parter will more than likely play out in outer space. You should see if you can get the Infinity trilogy, the Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity War and Infinity Crusade sometime before the movie two parter comes out.

 

[Reverend]

Well, given that both the Inhumans and Captain Marvel have decidedly cosmic origins (both Kree in fact) I could see a strong connection being made with the war happening out in space spilling over to Earth on several fronts. If nothing else, with Asgard either very pre-occupied if not out-and-out destroyed any external protection Earth had from there will disappear, leaving Earth open the the kinds of marauders we saw in Thor 2.

Indeed that may be the lead-in for Danvers' origin story. Think something along similar lines of Hal Jordan's origin, but it's Mar-Vell in place of Abin Sur.

Or maybe he's part of that nasty Kree faction looking to restart the old experiments to fight Thanos's onslaught and what Carol gets hit with is something like a supercharged terragenesis 2.0. No Inhuman ancestry required.


Small aside, but did anyone else get a Dr. Manhattan/Amazo from the DCAU vibe from The Vision? I'm prepared to believe that both of those were actually riffs on him (particularly the latter, since Timm would often slip in Marvel nods.) I'm just curious if this is how he is in the comics.

 

[DWF]

Well, given that both the Inhumans and Captain Marvel have decidedly cosmic origins (both Kree in fact) I could see a strong connection being made with the war happening out in space spilling over to Earth on several fronts. If nothing else, with Asgard either very pre-occupied if not out-and-out destroyed any external protection Earth had from there will disappear, leaving Earth open the the kinds of marauders we saw in Thor 2.

Indeed that may be the lead-in for Danvers' origin story. Think something along similar lines of Hal Jordan's origin, but it's Mar-Vell in place of Abin Sur.

Or maybe he's part of that nasty Kree faction looking to restart the old experiments to fight Thanos's onslaught and what Carol gets hit with is something like a supercharged terragenesis 2.0. No Inhuman ancestry required.

In the comics Thanos was a Ttian based Eternal, while I'm sure the Inhumans movie will be interesting it is odd that they didn't introduce the Eternals. We did see a Celestial in the Guardians Of The Galaxy movie and of course Knowhere is the head of a dead Celestial and the Celestials did create the Eternals, Humans and Deviants. But I think there's going to a mess of people in the Infinity two parter adding too many more chracters in the second act would make it rather confusing I think.

 

[Reverend]

^I didn't say anyone would be in the second act, just that if the war is going to be going on in the background all year, those two movies seem prime candidates for touching on that.