Avatar is stupid

[Ensign_Redshirt]

People who like Avatar compare it to Star Wars, people who dislike it compare it to Dances with Wolves. Can't we at least agree that Avatar is "Star Wars meets Dances with Wolves"?

Seriously though, it still amazes me how much debate the movie creates in this forum. Even five months after its original release, people continue to start Avatar threads which then reach more than 10 pages. District 9 or Moon definitely aren't debated that much or that often. Avatar is more like Star Trek (2009) in that respect. So, there's just another movie we could compare Avatar with. At least both seem to be "love it or hate it" kind of movies.

 

[Bones2]

^
Well to be fair, in the case of Star Trek XI, this is a Star Trek forum.

I imagine there's a correlation where people either dislike both or neither. They're both style over substance pieces.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I am now officially the last person on the planet to see Avatar. Hey, it should be a summer flick so I decided to wait and make it one.

I went into it knowing all the criticisms, it's a dippy Hollywood screed with a sledgehammer approach, scientists = good, military = bad, crossed with a not very original and occasionally cringeworthy Whitey Saves the Noble Savage schitck.

Yep, guilty as charged. But the visuals were wonderful! Sam Worthington could use a voice coach. His "American" accent was about as bad as any I've heard - distractingly so. Maybe they should have just dubbed over someone else's voice.

So, given the inevitability of a sequel, just what the frak are they going to do with a sequel? I figure Pandora is pretty safe from interlopers, what with their uniquely impenetrable planetary defense. If their goddess runs out of animals to toss at the evil imperialist pigs, she could recruit all the plant life: poisonous spores, strangling vines, big-ass trees crushing your battle cruisers, etc. Nobody's going to fuck with Pandora now.

Unless...the only place the planet would be vulnerable is anywhere that there aren't many life forms. Are the poles frozen over? Are there deserts?

 

[Tulin]

Word is Cameron is looking at the ocean for the sequel.

I guess the ten years he spent in it during and post-Titanic filming will put him in good stead.


Me, I am done with "the world of" Avatar. Fool me once, shame on him.....

 

[RoJoHen]

Yep, guilty as charged. But the visuals were wonderful! Sam Worthington could use a voice coach. His "American" accent was about as bad as any I've heard - distractingly so. Maybe they should have just dubbed over someone else's voice.

Really? I didn't even notice his accent. Seemed American enough for me.

 

[Starbreaker]

He really strains to do those voiceovers at the beginning, but he's alright after that.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

He really strains to do those voiceovers at the beginning, but he's alright after that.

He's terrible at the beginning and then improves, but he struggles throughout.

I admit, spotting bad American accents has become a hobby of mine. It's kinda fun. But I hate it when they make it so easy. I prefer the small mistakes, people who hit "r's" at the end of a word just a touch too hard or can't handle regional variations.

Word is Cameron is looking at the ocean for the sequel.

Yep, I figured. The visuals could be even more outlandish! But I'd love it if Pandora had arctic tundra and deserts as well.

 

[Harvey]

That was an American accent? I had just assumed he was doing his native accent, but it has been a while since I saw the thing.

 

[Trekker4747]

Sam Worthington does a horrible American accent. Which is dumb considering how easy our accent should be to fake.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And considering that, on the average, Americans are far worse at imitating other accents (like English, Australian, etc.) than the reverse.

One wonders why they couldn't simply have Jake Sully be Australian and be done with it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

That was an American accent? I had just assumed he was doing his native accent, but it has been a while since I saw the thing.

The character was supposed to be American and he did make a serious attempt every so often to sound American, so I figured at least that was the idea.

Sam Worthington does a horrible American accent. Which is dumb considering how easy our accent should be to fake.

It's easy to fake? Why?

I don't think any accent is easy to fake when the listeners are the people with that accent. Their ears are very well honed to hear any glitches. If they don't have that accent, you can get away with moider.

One wonders why they couldn't simply have Jake Sully be Australian and be done with it.

They'd have to explain why an ex-Marine was Australian, etc etc, too much backstory nobody cares about for the sake of an actor they cast simply because he has the right sort of face. (Seriously, that was my impression: he has a face that looks good when translated into Navi features. I certainly saw nothing more in his performance that couldn't have been handled by about a thousand aspiring actors pounding at Hollywood's door.) Better solution: re-dub his dialogue with somebody with a similar voice. We'd never know the diff and wouldn't be continually dragged out of the movie by his inability to do the correct accent.

 

[stj]

I suppose it depends on where you live. It's usually easy for me to spot a bad "Southern" accent, because for one thing, some people don't realize it has regional variations.

An Englishman or Australian attempting a general American accent (whatever that is,) sounds like he might come from upstate New York, or Colorado, or Rhode Island, or some posh suburb of Philadelphia or an ethnic neighborhood in NYC. There are lots of exotic flatland places where people talk different. Worthington just sounded like he was supposed to be a big city boy of some sort.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

It's usually easy for me to spot a bad "Southern" accent, because for one thing, some people don't realize it has regional variations.

I can generally tell if someone sounds more Texas vs more Carolina, but overall, I can only tell when the "standard" American accent is bad. It's particularly easy if you happen to know what the actor's native accent is, and can listen for whether he's masking it well.

An Englishman or Australian attempting a general American accent (whatever that is,)

You know, the one the newscasters use.

Worthington just sounded like he was supposed to be a big city boy of some sort.

Yeah, everyone just goes for the standard accent. Even when they hit it right on the money, the problem is, it's boring. Why not make Jake a Texas or Carolina guy? Or something more subtle, like Californian, which is hard but not impossible to distinguish?

 

[Trekker4747]

It's easy to fake? Why?

I don't think any accent is easy to fake when the listeners are the people with that accent. Their ears are very well honed to hear any glitches. If they don't have that accent, you can get away with moider.

Hugh Laurie, Bob Hoskins, Gillian Anderson and Kate Winslet are four English actors who immediately come to mind who can do American aceents very well to the point where (at least in the case of the first three) many people find it hard to believe they're not Americans.

I suspect the American accents, specifilcy the mid-western American accent, is the easiest to fake because that accent has a tendency to pronouces words naturally, as they're inteded to be pronouced, without doing things like over-pronouncing certain vowel-sounds, mushing sound together, or rolling R's stuff like that.

But, still, countless English and foreign actors have been able to believably fake American accents. It's certainly harder the other way around (sort-of the oppiste of why American is easy to fake, foreign accents do funny things to certain sounds that are hard to fake perfectly) as many American actors struggle perfecting foreign accents and often times when they try it's obvious. (See: Mel Gibson, Braveheart.)

Sam Worthington not being able to fake an American accents speaks volumes about his talent.

 

[stj]

You know, the one the newscasters use.

Ah, I see.

Since Peter Jennings, that's the one I think of as South Canadian.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

because that accent has a tendency to pronouces words naturally, as they're inteded to be pronouced,

Emphasis mine. There's a way words "should" be pronounced?

But, still, countless English and foreign actors have been able to believably fake American accents.

Because some of them are good at it/work at it/have good coaches. If Worthington couldn't get up to speed even after being coached, then either recast the role or dub his voice. Don't make us suffer!

Sam Worthington not being able to fake an American accents speaks volumes about his talent.

His talent on that particular measure, sure. Or maybe just the amount of work he put into it/training he got for it.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I suspect the American accents, specifilcy the mid-western American accent, is the easiest to fake because that accent has a tendency to pronouces words naturally, as they're inteded to be pronouced, without doing things like over-pronouncing certain vowel-sounds, mushing sound together, or rolling R's stuff like that.

Mmh, I'm not sure you understand how accents actually work. To you the American accent sounds "natural, as words are intended to be pronounced" only because, well, you are American.

 

[Trekker4747]

because that accent has a tendency to pronouces words naturally, as they're inteded to be pronouced,

Emphasis mine. There's a way words "should" be pronounced?

Look in a dictionary, next to the word there's usually a pronunciation/phonetic key to tell people how to say a word correctly, or the way it's intended to be pronounced.

For example, many English people have a tendancy to put an "r" sound on the end of words that end in "a" (Patrick Stewart does this quite often in TNG) even though the way the words are intended to be said has no "r" sound.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

For example, many English people have a tendancy to put an "r" sound on the end of words that end in "a" (Patrick Stewart does this quite often in TNG) even though the way the words are intended to be said has no "r" sound.

I think they only do that when the *next* word begins with a vowel.

They'd have to explain why an ex-Marine was Australian, etc etc

Australia doesn't have marines of their own?

 

[Trekker4747]

For example, many English people have a tendancy to put an "r" sound on the end of words that end in "a" (Patrick Stewart does this quite often in TNG) even though the way the words are intended to be said has no "r" sound.

I think they only do that when the *next* word begins with a vowel.

Still doesn't change the fact they're adding the "r" sound to a word that's not supposed to have it.

And I'm not, necessarily, saying that one accent is better or "more proper" than the other. Just implying that some accents are better to fake than others because of the way the words are pronounced and some accents pronounce words more "naturally" or "by the book" than others. It should be easy, for example, for someone with a Southern Accent to fake a mid-western accent (again, a naturalistic accent that people in the media are often traiend to emulate) but it's harder the otherway around. When people try and "fake" a Southern Accent having grown up with Mid-Western, or New England accent it comes across as fake, but rarely have I heard it the otherway around.

I guess, it's easier to fake saying words they way they're "supposed to be said" than the way they're "not supposed to be said." (Note the use of quotes there.)

Language and accents, IMHO, is a complex thing to fake or say which ones are "right." But, in my views, Worthington's apparent inability to fake an American accents when countless English and other foreign accent-ed actors can just speaks volumes about him and his talents.

That all said, I think Worthington is a decent-enough actor with a likable screen presence. Just keep him as an Australian character, I guess.