Authors please pitch the Robau if you can.

[Captaindemotion]

And donuts.

 

[Sci]

Fair point on the Friendship 1 arrowhead -- but I don't think that invalidates my speculation about the Kelvin's mission patch. One could interpret the scenario as being as follows: The Kelvin adopts the Friendship 1 arrowhead in honor of early Earth extrasolar missions (perhaps in conjunction with sister ships that adopt as their mission patches the designs of early Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite, etc., missions); the Kelvin, having been retired from service (or lost) by 2245, inspires the Starfleet to assign that arrowhead to the Enterprise and other ships by the 2240s; those other ships and especially the Enterprise herself become so well-known and accomplished that by the 2280s, Starfleet adopts it as its overall emblem.

So I still think my speculation that the Kelvin's use of the arrowhead inspired its use on the Enterprise is consistent with the canon and could suggest that the Kelvin was considered a special ship, even in the Prime Universe history.

I just don't think it makes sense to think that a single ship's patch would be adopted fleetwide to "honor its accomplishments" or whatever. Isn't that kind of a slight to all the other ships and crews in service at the same time? It seems quite petty to me. It's one thing to honor the best; it's something very different to treat everyone else as though they don't even count.

Besides, has that ever actually happened in reality? The entire organization adopting the insignia of just one vessel within it? I can think of analogies in the corporate world -- National Comics renaming itself DC after the initials of its most successful title Detective Comics, or Warner Bros. Pictures using an arrangement of "As Time Goes By" from Casablanca as its title-card music (or using Bugs Bunny and "Merrily We Roll Along" on its younger-skewing movies' title cards for a while), or various companies that own TV networks renaming themselves and some of their other holdings after those networks. But every NASA logo has been for the agency as a whole, and each NASA space mission has had its own distinct logo. And every US Navy logo has been for the Navy as a whole. And so on.

To me, it just makes far more sense for the general insignia of the institution to be something that was created specifically for that purpose, either for the agency itself or for a precursor agency. There's no appeal to me in these notions that any single ship was so much better or more important than every other one that it deserved special recognition in that way. I think it's far more likely that while we're watching a TV show that focuses on one particular ship and its crew doing heroic and important things, what we're not seeing are the numerous other ships and crews that are doing equally heroic and important things elsewhere in the galaxy. If Starfleet is an organization capable of producing officers as gifted as the ones we see on the Enterprise or whatever, surely it wouldn't concentrate them all on a single ship. The very existence of the ultracompetent crews we see pretty much mandates the existence of other equally gifted and noteworthy crews. So I'm sorry, but the idea of the whole organization adopting the insignia of a single ship as some kind of special "honor" strikes me as not merely ridiculous, but downright distasteful.

Well, let me put it this way:

Whether or not Starfleet adopted the arrowhead as its emblem to honor the Enterprise and/or any other ships that used it is entirely separate from whether or not the arrowhead was given to the Enterprise to honor the Kelvin -- which is the only point relevant to the Prime Universe I made in suggesting that the Kelvin might have been a very well-respected, accomplished starship in its own right, even prior to encountering the Narada.

 

[Satyrquaze]

definately donuts.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But the era of the Kelvin wouldn't be too different than that of TOS. Any plot you could do with the Kelvin, you could probably do with the Enterprise. The difference is in the new characters and in my opinion there was nothing about the characters that was very fascinating.

Well, really, every single Trek story could be compacted to fit on Kirk's Enterprise.

I think the Kelvin scenes in STXI were powerful, and had a unique atmosphere. The gigantic ship, with a cavernous engineering section so big, guys were rapelling down from the upper levels. Dozens and dozens of shuttlecraft. Unique weapons (were those microtorpedo launchers? Plasma weapons? Pulse phasers? Projectiles?), 800+ crew etc etc

Plus, although much of Diane Carey's pre-TOS stories have been contradicted by later canon, I'd love to learn how George Kirk became such friends with Robert April.

 

[Yevetha]

And donuts.

Plus 5 condoms.

 

[Relayer1]

I didn't really like Robeau and don't really fancy novels featuring the Kelvin. It would be good to have some fiction about non-Enterprise stuff set in the new universe though.

 

[Skywalker]

I'd rather see a series about a crew in the 2160s, in the really early days of the Federation, when it was just a small alliance of a few worlds trying to figure out how to work together in a huge, hostile galaxy. But I do find the idea of a series set on the Kelvin before 2233 very intriguing. There's already a potential for a good cast of characters there with Robau and the Kirks (maybe they're not even romantically involved when the series begins), and like KingDaniel implied, Robert April would be a natural fit. Has April's age ever been officially established? According to Memory Beta, he commanded the USS Tiberius for "many years" before returning to Earth in the early 2240s. If a presumptive Kelvin series ends in 2233, that could still work.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Plus 5 condoms.

They will fit like a glove.

 

[Stevil2001]

When Michael and I pitched a ton of stuff back in 2010, one of them was a Kelvin novel. Jamie Costas had the most positive reaction to the Kelvin story and what became A Choice of Catastrophes, and asked for more on both, though ultimately S&S and CBS decided to go forward with A Choice of Catastrophes. So it's not impossible for it to happen, or at least it wasn't then.

 

[BritishSeaPower]

I always thought Federation's rationale for the arrowhead was the most logical. I never liked the idea that the Enterprise's mission patch became the default insignia for Starfleet because of Kirk. It really doesn't jibe because it would seem to coincide with him becoming Admiral. "Admiral Nogura, here's my list of suggestions. Item one is replacing individual mission patches with MINE and putting it on EVERYTHING."

I think people are interested in Robau and the Kelvin for many of the reasons stated so far. You also have some leeway. You can write it and have it apply to either universe. (As it seems Children of Kings was apparently written to be.) or tell the story of the Kelvin up to the divergent event and have it apply to both universes. As well, the idea of Kirk's father in action with a Captain whose sole appearance is largely considered bad-ass, would be fairly easy sell. "All of the fun of both a Kirk-helmed book with an Action Captain, and the fun of a "Wet-behind-the-ears Kirk as XO." but without having to slot it into Kirk's rather busy schedule. ;-)

 

[RonG]

Yeah, I'd buy that.


Seems a natural fit (and a way to bring back into the TrekLit fold) for Diane Carey - it would be like a "remastered" version of her April novels - Final Frontier and Best Destiny

 

[Yevetha]

When Michael and I pitched a ton of stuff back in 2010, one of them was a Kelvin novel. Jamie Costas had the most positive reaction to the Kelvin story and what became A Choice of Catastrophes, and asked for more on both, though ultimately S&S and CBS decided to go forward with A Choice of Catastrophes. So it's not impossible for it to happen, or at least it wasn't then.

So a Robau novel could actually happen. Great.

I assume you cannot tell us what it would had been about. Right?

 

[Rush Limborg]

All I know is--I'm REASONABLY sure one could find a market for Kelvin novels...if the extent of folks contributing to The Robau's cult status on this board alone is any indication....

Of course, the writers would have to be sure to portray Robau as the bad- we all know him to be.

In short--KRAD and Mack, you two feel up to it...?

 

[The Wormhole]

It's been my firm opinion that the question is "when will we get a Kelvin novel?" as opposed to "will we ever get a Kelvin novel?" It'll happen eventually, might take a few years (or more) but it will happen.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Someone had a positive reaction to the idea back in 2010 but then the franchise chose to commission another book instead. That doesn't make a Kelvin likely, that makes it less likely. The franchise has essentially already chosen not to pursue this idea. Plus, the longer we go without a Kelvin book, the less likely it will happen.

The only hope, I believe, is if a best selling author with proven sales pitches the concept in a compelling way. Even then, we now know the idea was pitched and rejected.

 

[Sci]

Someone had a positive reaction to the idea back in 2010 but then the franchise chose to commission another book instead. That doesn't make a Kelvin likely, that makes it less likely. The franchise has essentially already chosen not to pursue this idea.

"The franchise?" You seem to be confusing "the franchise" with a single editor who is no longer working at Pocket Books.

And the fact that that particular editor chose not to pursue that particular story idea does not mean that other story ideas for novels set aboard the Kelvin cannot happen. There's no mathematical model of probability here. The relevant questions are, "Does the editor like the story pitch?" and "Do the licensors -- CBS, Paramount, and Bad Robot -- want to let Pocket do a novel set aboard the Kelvin?" That's it.

Even then, we now know the idea was pitched and rejected.

No, we know that an idea for a story set aboard the Kelvin was rejected. "The starship Kelvin" is not a story idea, it's a setting.

 

[Yevetha]

Mollman, any idea why it was rejected?

 

[Relayer1]

I think the Kelvin scenes in STXI were powerful, and had a unique atmosphere. The gigantic ship, with a cavernous engineering section so big, guys were rapelling down from the upper levels. Dozens and dozens of shuttlecraft.

Just a thought - when we first see the Kelvin it is before Nero arrives from the future and changes the timeline. This is in effect the universe of TOS.

How then, does the size and ships compliment of the Kelvin fit with the (smaller ?) TOS enterprise ?

 

[Sci]

I think the Kelvin scenes in STXI were powerful, and had a unique atmosphere. The gigantic ship, with a cavernous engineering section so big, guys were rapelling down from the upper levels. Dozens and dozens of shuttlecraft.

Just a thought - when we first see the Kelvin it is before Nero arrives from the future and changes the timeline. This is in effect the universe of TOS.

How then, does the size and ships compliment of the Kelvin fit with the (smaller ?) TOS enterprise ?

I'm honestly not sure what the issue here would be. The Kelvin's size is actually unclear, but even if it weren't, so what? You'd have a ship that's larger than the Constitution class yet more primitive. No big continuity issu here.In fact, there's already precedent for earlier ships being nearly as large as the Constitution class yet being more primitive -- the D'Kyr class from ENT was seen in "In A Mirror, Darkly" to be very nearly as large as a Constitution class, yet more technologically primitive, especially in weapsons and defensive systems.

 

[Relayer1]

I think the Kelvin scenes in STXI were powerful, and had a unique atmosphere. The gigantic ship, with a cavernous engineering section so big, guys were rapelling down from the upper levels. Dozens and dozens of shuttlecraft.

Just a thought - when we first see the Kelvin it is before Nero arrives from the future and changes the timeline. This is in effect the universe of TOS.

How then, does the size and ships compliment of the Kelvin fit with the (smaller ?) TOS enterprise ?

I'm honestly not sure what the issue here would be. The Kelvin's size is actually unclear, but even if it weren't, so what? You'd have a ship that's larger than the Constitution class yet more primitive. No big continuity issu here.In fact, there's already precedent for earlier ships being nearly as large as the Constitution class yet being more primitive -- the D'Kyr class from ENT was seen in "In A Mirror, Darkly" to be very nearly as large as a Constitution class, yet more technologically primitive, especially in weapsons and defensive systems.

My thoughts were that the ships in the JJverse are substantially larger than those in the Prime universe, thus there was a natural progression from the Kelvin to the JJverse Enterprise which does not follow for the TOS Enterprise. It is, however, entirely possible that ships did get smaller as technology progressed.