There's a follow-up to this, but since it would lead to a conversation more suited to TNZ, I'll just leave it at this.
Augments SHOULD be accepted in Federation society...
- Thread starter dswynne1
- Start date
^ I should point out that there is heavy sarcasm in my observation of Khan and McGivers.
If not for that scene where Khan basically beats her up, I might have believed him when he said he loved her. But I cannot reconcile Khan's statement with what I saw.
Now of course Khan could have regretted his treatment of McGivers and later grown to love her. If that's the case, then, well, good for him. But their first meeting? Absolutely not. Khan was abusive and violent and entirely the opposite of anything we could recognize as "love."
If not for that scene where Khan basically beats her up, I might have believed him when he said he loved her. But I cannot reconcile Khan's statement with what I saw.
Now of course Khan could have regretted his treatment of McGivers and later grown to love her. If that's the case, then, well, good for him. But their first meeting? Absolutely not. Khan was abusive and violent and entirely the opposite of anything we could recognize as "love."
Last edited:
Hey I just met you, and this is crazy, but I'm a psycho-dictator, so betray Kirk maybe!
Julian wasn't designed to be an ambitious conquerer but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have chosen by his own free will to become one if his life had turned out differently.
Julian wasn't designed to be an ambitious conquerer but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have chosen by his own free will to become one if his life had turned out differently.
^ Bashir has the advantage of a (relatively) stable home life and parents who obviously love him. That alone counts for a LOT. I'm just hazarding a guess that Khan's upbringing was not anything like that.
The don't have Zeppelins in the future either.
I mean, ok, the first augments caused WW3 and whatnot in the late 20th century. But maybe after Khan left Earth they decided for other reasons it wasn't research worth pursuing.
The augments Archer had to face and the 24th century ones probably weren't very well engineered too.
If I dont make much sense it's because I never watched the later seasons of DS9, and watched the entire ENT just once. But Space Seed I love.
I mean, ok, the first augments caused WW3 and whatnot in the late 20th century. But maybe after Khan left Earth they decided for other reasons it wasn't research worth pursuing.
The augments Archer had to face and the 24th century ones probably weren't very well engineered too.
If I dont make much sense it's because I never watched the later seasons of DS9, and watched the entire ENT just once. But Space Seed I love.
Zeppelins? 
Zeppelins?
As an example of a technology that was abandoned.
^ Oh. Alrighty then.
That significantly decreases the odds of becoming a psycho-murderer. But I'm also going to hazard a guess that most augments who become sociopaths but have no obvious signs of instability learn how to pretend not to be sociopaths rather quickly.
When children spend their childhoods gradually realizing they are much stronger and smarter than all their classmates while also having trouble relating to their interests, it has a certain kind of effect on their self esteem.
I think the movie 'Gattaca' makes a good case for why Augments would either become:
A. Banned.
B. The default setting for humanity, so advanced that they'd basically be Homo Sapiens to our Neanderthal, wiping out 'normal' people for being inferior.
I don't really see a happy 'middle ground' between these two options that don't involve a heavily damaged and segregated society. Since Trek has always had a bit of a boner for the innate awesomeness of straight-up, non-modified humans, it's easy to see why, rather than try to realistically portray a society in which EVERYONE was augmented, they just kind of hand-waved the issue away and said that it was banned because the alternative was too horrible to contemplate.
PS- see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories for more evidence of why selective augmentation would destroy society.
A. Banned.
B. The default setting for humanity, so advanced that they'd basically be Homo Sapiens to our Neanderthal, wiping out 'normal' people for being inferior.
I don't really see a happy 'middle ground' between these two options that don't involve a heavily damaged and segregated society. Since Trek has always had a bit of a boner for the innate awesomeness of straight-up, non-modified humans, it's easy to see why, rather than try to realistically portray a society in which EVERYONE was augmented, they just kind of hand-waved the issue away and said that it was banned because the alternative was too horrible to contemplate.
PS- see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories for more evidence of why selective augmentation would destroy society.
But you have to ask yourself, would Khan have done the hand squeezing thing if he hadn't already pick-up on that McGivers would respond positively too it? Things she said, her manner towards him, the choice of art in her quarters ?
Were she a different type of person, Khan would have employ a different method.
Zeppelins?
As an example of a technology that was abandoned.
Not the Led ones, I hope.
The banning of genetic enhancement does seem a bit weird. I get it in a human context but with the Federation as a whole, not so much. Would a GE human be significantly stronger or smarter than, say a Vulcan? Would they really be an intolerable threat to either Humanity or the Federation?
In the end it might simply by that the procedure is banned due to its medical risks. In that there is too high a chance of ending up as a Jack Pack member than Julian. So instead of irrational fear it's more about public health.
In the end it might simply by that the procedure is banned due to its medical risks. In that there is too high a chance of ending up as a Jack Pack member than Julian. So instead of irrational fear it's more about public health.
But you have to ask yourself, would Khan have done the hand squeezing thing if he hadn't already pick-up on that McGivers would respond positively too it? Things she said, her manner towards him, the choice of art in her quarters ?
Were she a different type of person, Khan would have employ a different method.
I never got the impression that McGivers (or anyone else) would want to be treated the way that Khan did.
Also, considering the fact that Admiral Marcus (STiD) was so concerned about his would-be war with the Klingons, I am surprised that the plot didn't have him revive the Augment program in order to create his own "super-soldier" program. Doing so would have made sense as to why Marcus would find it necessary to revive Khan, since he would have needed him to keep the new generation of Augments in line, with him also keeping Khan in line vis-a-vis holding Khan's people hostage. Personally, I would have used Jochim (Khan's right-hand man) as the main bad guy, with his love and devotion to Khan being used against him (i.e. with Khan still in his cryo-tube).
Marcus probably found Khan hard enough to control that the idea of having more Augments around to also have to keep under control didn't seem like a great plan.
I wouldn't trust Khan to keep the Augments in line...I'd trust him to take charge of them and create all kinds of shenanigans.
The idea of Joachim being the one revived instead of Khan is intriguing, though.
I wouldn't trust Khan to keep the Augments in line...I'd trust him to take charge of them and create all kinds of shenanigans.
The idea of Joachim being the one revived instead of Khan is intriguing, though.
Who?
^ And who, thanks to Judson Scott's dumbass agent, was not credited onscreen...
Similar threads
