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Astral Queen, starliners and cargo pods

I think that FJ arrived at the same conclusion, as I did, that the Federation had been founded in Captain Kirk's lifetime from dialog in the episode "Whom Gods Destroy". In the episode, Kirk, when speaking about the inhabitants of Axanar IV, said,

"They were humanitarians and statesmen, and they had a dream. A dream that became a reality and spread throughout the stars, a dream that made Mister Spock and me brothers."

In the context of the episode, Kirk might have been a witness to the birth of the Federation, as he was on a peace mission to this planet.
 
Indeed. I'm just not sure who these humanitarians and statesmen would be - people of Axanar, or people of the peace mission (from Earth or the Federation or whatever).

But either way, their vision need not have spread to the stars when Kirk was a cadet: Kirk might instead be paying a visit to the holy site from which the vision spread to the stars centuries ago. We don't know what "peace missions" are, but Garth seems to categorically condemn politicians at the very mention of the concept, while Kirk's defense of politicians sounds more or less categorical, too.

Certainly the exchange can be interpreted in many ways. But what is so exceptional about Kirk and Spock becoming "brothers"? Garth doesn't seem to have any anti-alien bias - his objection to this "brotherhood" is simply that Spock is Kirk's underling, not his peer. Did the peace mission involve some sort of brotherhood rituals or what?

FASA of course turns this thing upside down and says that events at Axanar allowed Kirk and Spock to continue to work side by side, when there was a danger of this century-old tradition being broken with Vulcan seceding and the UFP perhaps falling apart altogether...

Timo Saloniemi
 
FWIW: totally non-canon, but in one of his recent New Visions comics, John Byrne had a liner called the Rigel Queen, which one could suppose he might have intended as a sister-ship to the Astral Queen.

In the context of the episode, Kirk might have been a witness to the birth of the Federation, as he was on a peace mission to this planet.

One of those rare examples of inter-episode continuity in TOS... Kirk's Palm Leaf of Axanar Peace Mission was mentioned in his award list in season one's "Court Martial", then the mission itself was referenced during "Whom Gods Destroy" in season three!

Sounds interesting, someone should make a fan-film about that.

:lol: Great idea, let me know when your Kickstarter launches...
 
FWIW: totally non-canon, but in one of his recent New Visions comics, John Byrne had a liner called the Rigel Queen, which one could suppose he might have intended as a sister-ship to the Astral Queen....

I haven't seen this before (either). Love the design. Nice use of some of the development ideas for the enterprise combined with some familiar elements. Thumbs up. thanks for sharing
 
FWIW: totally non-canon, but in one of his recent New Visions comics, John Byrne had a liner called the Rigel Queen, which one could suppose he might have intended as a sister-ship to the Astral Queen.
Or perhaps she looked like a predecessor to the Raging Queen NCC-42284? ;)
24429589286_540514aa87_o.jpg
 
FWIW, the Raging Queen pennant uniquely features no "USS" in front of the name.

Perhaps Starfleet drafted Queen class civilian vessels for use as troop transports in the Dominion War, giving them NCC registries but withholding the USS prefix...? :p

The almost identical USS Curry did have the TLA in front of the name.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Regarding the Astral Queen: Is there anything substantial to identify her as a stand-alone starship with her own warp engines? After reviewing the transcript from the episode, it's less clear than one might think.

Here's Kirk's line while he is calling Uhura via communicator from Thomas Leighton's house on Planet Q:

KIRK: Put me through to Captain Jon Daily of the AstraI Queen on orbit station, and put it on scramble.​

It does indeed appear that "Astral Queen" refers to a vessel of some kind, the dialogue make it clear she is a form of interstellar transportation, capable of hauling people, and that she has a captain who owes Captain Kirk many favors. But it is not firmly established what kind of vessel she is or what organizational flag said vessel operates under.

AQ could easily be a private, stand-alone, warp-engined starship in her own right. She could look like any number of deep space vessels depicted in Masao Okazaki's Starfleet Museum, perhaps the Pioneer-class, or the Olympus Mons-class, or perhaps the more modern Ocean-class or even the later Starmaster and Huron designs.

But there's nothing that clearly states whether the Astral Queen is an actual starship (though implied, however loosely), and we don't know if she was a Federation vessel, or an Earth vessel, or maybe a vessel in service of Planet Q. Could Astral Queen be a "starliner" -type transport vessel of the cargo pod variety, with no warp drive of her own, capable of docking with any robot or manned warp-sled pseudo-starship for passage between star systems? There's nothing in what Kirk or Daly or anyone else says in "Conscience of the King" to discount that possibility.

By separating pods from sleds, many possibilities would be opened up for colonies, space stations, bases and homeworlds. Pods would be much easier to build, reconfigure and maintain than complete starships. Warp-sleds would be far easier to build and maintain, since there would be very little actual ship to them. A pod could be attached to a ship like FJ's Ptolemy, or the fan-envisioned Sultana, or and number of other simpler and smaller warp-sled scenarios. The only spec for a warp-sled would be the ability to reliably interface with a pod (or perhaps several of them) and to be able to carry said pod(s) reliably at warp velocity from one star system to another. The only spec for a pod would be its ability to interface with a warp-sled (it has to fit), to withstand the stresses of travel at warp velocity and the ability to break free at the destination, travel in-system on its own impulse power and then to establish and hold orbit or to dock.

In that sense, a pod would be a space vessel, with starliner-type pods employing a small crew and captain, but they would not be a full-blown starship.
 
And you will recall in "Bread and Circuses" the following exchange:

CLAUDIUS: Admit it. You find these games frightening, revolting.

KIRK: (chuckles) Proconsul, in some parts of the galaxy I have seen forms of entertainment that makes this look like a folk dance.

CLAUDIUS: Certain this isn't different, Captain? Those are your men dying, not strangers!

KIRK: I've had to select men to die before so that others could be saved.

CLAUDIUS: You're a clever liar, Captain Kirk! Merikus was a spaceship captain! I've observed him thoroughly. Your species has no such strength!

MERIK: He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew. I tried for such a command.

CLAUDIUS: I see no evidence of superiority. They fight no better than your men did, Merikus. Perhaps not as well.

Thus there is a difference between a "spaceship" and a "starship". Apparently, in the Star Trek Universe, a vessel can be a good ship, but that doesn't make it a warp-engined starship in its own right. Hence, Merik's Beagle and Daly's Astral Queen could be spaceships, but not starships in Federation nomenclature.
 
^ I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think the difference between a spaceship and a starship would be that a spaceship doesn't have warp drive. Beagle was a survey vessel, and presumably got to the vicinity of star system 892 under its own power. Spock even identified "portions of the antimatter nacelles" in the Beagle wreckage.

I just don't think people would generally refer to a towable cargo container as a "spaceship" or a "ship". YMMV, of course.
 
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