Assimilation of Nog...

[JirinPanthosa]

Nog is Nog, Spock is Spock, and Worf is Worf. The product of every part of their background, upbringing, and adult life.

Cultures are not archaeological artifacts to be kept in separate jars free of contamination. They're alive, constantly evolving to fit the desires and needs of the people living in them.

 

[Ragitsu]

Cultures are not archaeological artifacts to be kept in separate jars free of contamination. They're alive, constantly evolving to fit the desires and needs of the people living in them.

Somewhere, a nationalist's head just popped.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Given what we know about Ferengi...is it really such a bad thing that Nog became just a little bit less hardcore when he joined Starfleet?

I mean, Ferengi keep their women as slaves, and that's obviously incompatible with Federation values. (Or indeed, any kind of reasonably civilized society.) And as we have also seen, bribery and corruption are woven into literally every aspect of Ferengi life.

So any Ferengi traits that Nog may have had to give up...deserved it.

 

[Ferengi Prime 5]

And as we have also seen, bribery and corruption are woven into literally every aspect of Ferengi life.

So we are saying one Culture is better than another Culture...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

So we are saying one Culture is better than another Culture...

If one of them doesn’t let half their population wear clothes, then yes. Absolutely. But that is beside the point. Nog made his own choices.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So we are saying one Culture is better than another Culture...

In this case? Hell yeah, we are! And rightly so!

 

[Ferengi Prime 5]

Federation imperialist cultural snobbery... I want to point out the Ferengi never had slavery, concentration camps or interstellar wars... How can one cultural be better than another cultural..?

 

[kkt]

I'm not saying that antebellum slavery or Nazi concentration camps are better than the Ferengi culture we saw... but that most human societies today are better than Ferengi culture, at least as regards treatment of women.

Slaves had it much worse than Ferengi women: they equally were not educated and had no right to participate in society, but slaves could be sold away from their homes and families anytime that was convenient for the owner. Ferengi women couldn't be kicked out of their families, as far as we saw.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the Ferengi never had slavery, concentration camps or interstellar wars...

We don't know that.

How can one cultural be better than another cultural..?

Because, despite what the propaganda of the day might claim, there still are some absolute standards of good and evil.

imperialist

...and, SCENE.

 

[oberth]

Federation imperialist cultural snobbery... I want to point out the Ferengi never had slavery, concentration camps or interstellar wars... How can one cultural be better than another cultural..?

irrc, the only source for that is quark - what makes you so sure he ain't from that part of ferenginar that kinda resembles florida?

 

[Ragitsu]

Wage slavery, anyone?

 

[oberth]

Wage slavery, anyone?

i really have a problem with all that trading down of slavery


... or nazism for that matter

 

[kkt]

irrc, the only source for that is quark - what makes you so sure he ain't from that part of ferenginar that kinda resembles florida?

The source was Quark, but Sisko was right there and didn't correct him. So maybe Sisko wasn't that up on Ferengi history, or just didn't feel like arguing about it right then.

 

[WAMTNG]

Cultural Assimilation is Cultural Assimilation either the Borg way or the Federation way...

I personally don't think the usual discourses of cultural assimilation apply in either of these cases, but as I said previously, this reading is available (at least in the case of Nog you raised). I just don't find it compelling.

A few small follow on points....

Since Nog lives on a Bajoran station, if this were a textbook case of cultural assimilation, the question might be expected to hinge upon his taking on traits from Bajoran culture. He doesn't. He chooses to join Starfleet. As far as we know, there's nowhere in the Federation where cultural assimilation in the textbook sense could apply to a Ferengi, although this doesn't mean that you couldn't make a case with another species. (I'm not denying that cultural assimilation COULD be applied to the Federation in some context, I just don't find it applicable to Nog's circumstances.)

And Borg assimilation is categorically NOT cultural assimilation in the way this term is typically used, because you do not get to be a minority culture in a host culture when the Borg assimilates your species - you go straight to Borg, do not pass sector 0-0-1, do not collect any gold-pressed latinum.

Thanks for opening the discussion, anyway! I found it stimulating to consider this argument, even though I am not personally convinced by it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

How can one cultural be better than another cultural..?

"It ain't bragging if you can back it up." - Dizzy Dean

 

[Tuskin38]

We don't know that.

Quark said they didn't in 'Little Green Men'.

 

[oberth]

Quark said they didn't in 'Little Green Men'.

... in my line of work (journalism) he wouldn't be considered a strong source, would he?

 

[Paul Weaver]

Quark said they didn't in 'Little Green Men'.

Yet in Family Business, Brunt threatened and apparently had the power to sell Quark's mother. Methinks Quark had been sipping at Ferengi propaganda too long. A society that considers women to be property wouldn't think they were slaves even if they, to Human 21st century standards, were.

Federation imperialist cultural snobbery... I want to point out the Ferengi never had slavery, concentration camps or interstellar wars... How can one cultural be better than another cultural..?

Do you have an objective measure of what culture is better than another? We judge cultures based on our own. I'm sure some cultures consider slavery and concentration camps to be good, that equality is bad, etc. The Ferengi certainly like interstellar wars in some cases -- 34th rule. Quark claimed they didn't have slavery (of their own people - given Gaila's business associates I can't imagine Ferengi never dealt with Orions), but they certainly had indentured servants - the FCA had the authority to sell ferengi females, against their will, into indentured service, if that's not slavery I'm not sure what is.

The Federation doesn't tend to involve itself in the internal affairs of non federation members - like say the USA and USSR did during the cold war, despite the military ability to invade Ferenginar (once the true extent of Ferengi power was known) and liberate millions of people. They didn't overthrow the government of Angel One, or impose the Federation legal system on the Edo, despite those societies not holding federation cultural values (there was no indication that Picard was looking to overthrow society before the Edo God turned up, just to extract Wesley)

 

[Ferengi Prime 5]

Because, despite what the propaganda of the day might claim, there still are some absolute standards of good and evil.

The Ferengi have suvived as long as we have in the Star Trek Universe... an educational link...

Does Culture fall under this?

Every culture has succeeded as a system for human survival. No culture can be judged as evolutionary superior to another and cultural features can only be understood in terms of their role in the complete system. Cultural relativism encourages respect for different cultural values, beliefs, and practices.

https://cultureplusconsulting.com/2015/06/04/ethnocentrism/#:~:text=Every culture has succeeded as,values, beliefs, and practices.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Quark said they didn't in 'Little Green Men'.

And you believe him?