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article on the books' response to Trek XI

Not that it would've been a problem anyway. Kirk's line in ST IV wasn't that he was born in Iowa, just that he was "from Iowa." So canonically, he could've been born on a ship in the original history and there would've been no contradiction (except of the tourism-promoting conceit of the citizens of Riverside, Iowa that they're Kirk's future birthplace).
 
Christopher said:
Not that it would've been a problem anyway. Kirk's line in ST IV wasn't that he was born in Iowa, just that he was "from Iowa." So canonically, he could've been born on a ship in the original history and there would've been no contradiction (except of the tourism-promoting conceit of the citizens of Riverside, Iowa that they're Kirk's future birthplace).
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Oh come on, that would really be stretching it! OK, the Riverside bit is a bit suspect, but Iowa means the state (although as others have pointed out, this is clearly an Iowa that's been strip mined for something in the next 2 centuries!)
 
Well, my point is that Kirk never actually confirmed that he was born in the state of Iowa, just that he was "from" the state of Iowa. So he could've been born in space on a ship named Kelvin or anything else and it still wouldn't conflict with canon, because "from Iowa" could just as easily mean he grew up in that state or maintained legal residency there. In other words, I'm saying that calling the ship of his birth the Iowa would not only be an awkward fix as you say, but would be an unnecessary one as well, because having Kirk born in space would not create a continuity error.

As for the "strip mined" thing, I see that reaction from various people and it doesn't make sense to me. Just because we see one rock quarry in the state of Iowa in the 2240s doesn't mean it's undergone any radical change in the interim, since the state of Iowa contains dozens of rock quarries in the present day -- along with farms, rivers, cities, small towns, industrial plants, and all sorts of other locations. It's a whole state, nearly the size of England and Wales combined. It has room for a lot of different stuff. It's not just a single big cornfield.
 
Dimesdan said:
I know the Australian sense of humour is somewhat crass, but still, that was uncalled for Ian.
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Not so far removed from PAD's Ensign Pheytus puns. And he's not Australian.

I guess if someone recently suffered a stillbirth they'd be offended by my attempt at levity, but most humour and punnery ends up offending someone, so why do any of us attempt it?
 
Christopher said:
Not that it would've been a problem anyway. Kirk's line in ST IV wasn't that he was born in Iowa, just that he was "from Iowa." So canonically, he could've been born on a ship in the original history and there would've been no contradiction (except of the tourism-promoting conceit of the citizens of Riverside, Iowa that they're Kirk's future birthplace).
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It would make a hash of this exchange, though:
"Don't tell me: you're from outer space."
"No, I'm from Iowa. I just work in outer space."

And I contest that anyone would ever say they were "from Iowa" anymore than you'd say you were "from Enterprise". That's just not how you'd construct the sentence.
 
Steve Mollmann said:
Christopher said:
Not that it would've been a problem anyway. Kirk's line in ST IV wasn't that he was born in Iowa, just that he was "from Iowa." So canonically, he could've been born on a ship in the original history and there would've been no contradiction (except of the tourism-promoting conceit of the citizens of Riverside, Iowa that they're Kirk's future birthplace).
Click to expand...
It would make a hash of this exchange, though:
"Don't tell me: you're from outer space."
"No, I'm from Iowa. I just work in outer space."

And I contest that anyone would ever say they were "from Iowa" anymore than you'd say you were "from Enterprise". That's just not how you'd construct the sentence.
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Remember, these are the guys who gave us the new explanation for Bones' nickname....
 
Steve Mollmann said:
It would make a hash of this exchange, though:
"Don't tell me: you're from outer space."
"No, I'm from Iowa. I just work in outer space."
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My point is that there's nothing in that exchange that tells us where Kirk Prime was born. "From Iowa" doesn't mean "born in Iowa." So he could've been born on a starship -- of any name -- and that could still have been a true statement.

I'm not defending the idea of naming the ship the Iowa. I'm doing exactly the opposite of that. I'm rejecting it by pointing out that, not only would it have been a ridiculous continuity fix, but a totally unnecessary one, because we don't actually know for a fact where Jim Kirk was born, only where he was "from." If he'd been born on the Kelvin and then grown up in Iowa, he would still say he was "from Iowa."
 
I think I get what Christopher is saying. I was born in Illinois, but when people ask where I'm from I say Arizona, since this is where I've spent the majority of my life.
 
Actually, I seem to remember J.J. Abrams (or someone else close to the production) saying that there weren't going to be any changes to the shooting script at all due to the writers strike. Although, I suppose that an ad-lib from an actor might have been acceptable to him.
 
Turtletrekker said:
Actually, I seem to remember J.J. Abrams (or someone else close to the production) saying that there weren't going to be any changes to the shooting script at all due to the writers strike. Although, I suppose that an ad-lib from an actor might have been acceptable to him.
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As J.J. admitted in the interview in STM, changes were made on set - the difference, as I understand it, was that these arose organically from discussions between actors and director about the shape and blocking of a scene. There's a big difference between sitting down and rewriting a complete scene and tweaking it during shooting to accomodate the situation - and that's what happened.
 
Also, it's evident that a number of changes were made after principal photography by bringing in the actors to dub in new lines in post-production. Note how many lines of dialogue in the film are delivered by a speaker who's off-camera or facing away from the audience. That's a common technique for revising dialogue, and given that Abrams couldn't rewrite during shooting, it's a cinch he used it heavily.

An example is Pike's rather awkward line, "You know what the Federation represents, right? It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada." That wasn't in the novelization, so it probably wasn't in the script. And Pike is off-camera for the whole line. My guess is that Abrams or someone else realized that they hadn't really defined the Federation to the newcomers in the audience, so they had to stick that exposition in somewhere (even though they pretty much confused it with Starfleet there).

And there are more techniques available now for changing dialogue after shooting. I read that one of the FX companies, one that specializes in digital alteration of actors' images (and was probably responsible for the large eyes on the Kelvin doctor who delivered Jim Kirk), actually altered Leonard Nimoy's mouth movements in one of his scenes to match an altered line of dialogue. I don't know what the specific line was, though.
 
Christopher said:
Steve Mollmann said:
It would make a hash of this exchange, though:
"Don't tell me: you're from outer space."
"No, I'm from Iowa. I just work in outer space."
Click to expand...

My point is that there's nothing in that exchange that tells us where Kirk Prime was born. "From Iowa" doesn't mean "born in Iowa." So he could've been born on a starship -- of any name -- and that could still have been a true statement.
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I gotta disagree. In context, the "no" immediately following Taylor's mention of outer space is a flat-out denial that he's "from" anyplace other than planet Earth. There may be plenty of ways to stretch what "from Iowa" meant, but not more than a couple miles above sea level.
 
Turtletrekker said:
Actually, I seem to remember J.J. Abrams (or someone else close to the production) saying that there weren't going to be any changes to the shooting script at all due to the writers strike.
Click to expand...

That has to be the official line - to fend off union accusations of strike breaking - but what about scenes where an actor flubs a line (according to the script), or accidentally switches the order of two sentences, or makes an impromptu comment, but that is the take that ends up being used in the final print? Variations to the written word are going to happen. And dialogue can be relooped - all bridge dialogue in TMP was relooped due to the chattery noise of the little projectors putting the images on all the console monitors. Several lines in ST II don't match the actors' lips because lines were altered during relooping.

So there will still be room, even in a strike situation, for a little script malleability.
 
^ One practice in the industry is the compilation of a "revised final script" that reflects what was actually shot. These are used in post-production by editors and continuity personnel.
 
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