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Artemis stacking begins

Look forward to the test. But I don't see it going past 4 launches. Especially at 2.2 to 4 billion per launch. Especially if starship is up and running .. They can do it for pennys on the dollar.

The Europa mission has already been diverted to Falcon Heavy.. 2.2 billion vs 155 milion for launch.? Yeah..
 
I'm wondering if he was the inspiration for Ted Faro in Horizon Zero Dawn
Faro seemed the usual stock technocrat villain from a Bond movie. Could be. Blue Origin's failings seem to be from being almost arrogant in rejoicing at their slow schedule "Gradatim Ferociter" and hardly ever giving any kind of news of what they were up to. SpaceX on the other hand leads an exciting program with an unusual degree of transparency. And for a company that hasn't launched more than a few celebrities into suborbital space, as @publiusr was saying, they really like lawsuits.

But all that is just the public side. Their initial plan seemed to be to take the lessons learned from one program into another.. so Goddard would lead to New Shepard. New Shep to New Glenn, New Glen to New Armstrong. Meanwhile buildnig their industrial park in space.

But the fuel and architecture for New Armstrong is nothing like New Glenn is supposed to be. So there is little that can be taken from that. In the meantime, they were picked to provide a first stage engine for ULA for the new Vulcan launch vehicle which is replacing Atlas V and Delta IV, instead of an Aerojet design that was a direct descendant of the Apollo program and which might have been ready, already.

But Blue Origin's BE-4 was picked and the cycle of delays keeps going. Delaying the Vulcan causes a lot of problems down the chain, especially since the Ukrainian invasion. There will be no more RD-181 (Russian) engines for the Atlas V once the final ones are used up and apart from one or two more Delta IV heavy launches, that vehicle is done, too. Cygnus, which supplies the space station, also relies on a choice of two launch vehicles which, again, rely on Russian engines, and so moving to Vulcan is vital.

It's not hard to imagine that those Vulcan BE-4 delays must also be slowing down Blue Origin's BE4 development. It was supposed to fly this year, but that does not seem likely right now.. As a Bond villain, or end of the world creator, Bezos isn't looking very good. I think, despite its motto, Blue Origin bit off more than it could chew, too early. Bezos can continue to throw money into that furnace ,though , and eventually B.O. could end up succeeding.
 
The entire BO engine is... Irritating..
The current thing was to build 4 or so, send 2 to ULA for install..then test the other 2? HUH?

Just.. Seems like the old think of government contract .. If you take an extra decade.. It's just fine. People are relying on you.. Get with it and fulfill your contract.
 
The entire BO engine is... Irritating..
The current thing was to build 4 or so, send 2 to ULA for install..then test the other 2? HUH?

Just.. Seems like the old think of government contract .. If you take an extra decade.. It's just fine. People are relying on you.. Get with it and fulfill your contract.
yes. their slowness makes little sense unless they've just hit technical walls.
 
Pulling out what little hair I have left…going to be a reach…

Riiiippppp…

ahg…there it goes.

Delays are not new
https://forum.cosmoquest.org/forum/science-and-space/space-exploration/105555-

On depots
https://forum.cosmoquest.org/forum/science-and-space/space-exploration/102549-



Raptor 2 has burn throughs.

Hydrolox engines burn cooler some exhaust temps below 100C
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lunar flashlight
https://www.spacedaily.com/m/report...l_Lunar_Flashlight_Propulsion_System_999.html

On redundancy
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ToughSf/status/1329001404854366210/photo/1

The old film pods!
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=57004.0
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/apollo4ever/52315770764/

SLS
https://projectswordtoys.blogspot.com/2022/09/t-minus-and-counting.html?m=1

Space—an exploration of objects
https://www.academia.edu/44555914/SPACE_An_Exploration_of_Objects
 
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At the pad:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2022/08/artemis-1-launch-rollout/
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2022/08...perience-the-launch-of-the-artemis-i-mission/

One of the better folks at the NSF forum goes by the name of NASA Pilot, and it is refreshing to hear someone who isn't part of the "kill it with fire" cult there.

He has it that the launch will be documented by "..more than 150 ground cameras, the WB57's SAMI, 8 cameras on the core stage alone... Going to be absolutely epic."

"Instead of replacing SLS, I think a lot of these new launch vehicles serve very well in a cooperative role with SLS, each bringing their own advantages. The recent MTV/Mars mission studies seem to reach this conclusion as well (http://fiso.spiritastro.net/telecon/Kokan_2-2-22/Kokan_2-2-22.pdf). You got Starship carrying bulk propellants which it is pretty good at compared to normal cargo, New Glenn carries the large parts of the MTV that cant fit on a starship, while SLS carries the very large, very heavy, and high value parts of the MTV and the surface elements (SLS can fit a massive 10m fairing). And of course SLS flies crew with Orion. I think that works a lot better and uses the real strengths of each rocket rather than enhancing their weaknesses."
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54967.msg2396879#msg2396879

Some of the usual suspects piped up---and he had a great response

I encourage you to do some research on NHRO, its really the LEO of the moon. Nice and stable, good thermal environment, while still providing access to the majority of the lunar surface. A lot of the other lunar orbits are horrible for long term use as they require extensive station keeping and long term you need a infinitely sized (or other impractical sizes) radiator to keep thermals under control (https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20150019648/downloads/20150019648.pdf good paper on it). Also I believe NHRO is an "actual" lunar orbit, seeing how its an orbit, around the moon. Not sure what a fake orbit would be
grin.gif


Last I checked your car didn't need to be refueled in space, with cryogenic fluids (which behave really interestingly in microgravity and well worth looking at and researching for fun), and the gas pump didn't have to fly on a complicated rocket as well. Although I cant say 100% sure that isn't what your trip to 7-11 looks like, I'm guessing its not
smiley.gif
.

As for SLS I'm sure there is nothing I can say that would make you think about changing your mind but I will just end off with this
https://waynehale.wordpress.com/2019/11/09/what-figure-did-you-have-in-mind/
 
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At the pad:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2022/08/artemis-1-launch-rollout/

One of the better folks at the NSF forum goes by the name of NASA Pilot, and it is refreshing to hear someone who isn't part of the "kill it with fire" cult there.

He has it that the launch will be documented by "..more than 150 ground cameras, the WB57's SAMI, 8 cameras on the core stage alone... Going to be absolutely epic."

"Instead of replacing SLS, I think a lot of these new launch vehicles serve very well in a cooperative role with SLS, each bringing their own advantages. The recent MTV/Mars mission studies seem to reach this conclusion as well (http://fiso.spiritastro.net/telecon/Kokan_2-2-22/Kokan_2-2-22.pdf). You got Starship carrying bulk propellants which it is pretty good at compared to normal cargo, New Glenn carries the large parts of the MTV that cant fit on a starship, while SLS carries the very large, very heavy, and high value parts of the MTV and the surface elements (SLS can fit a massive 10m fairing). And of course SLS flies crew with Orion. I think that works a lot better and uses the real strengths of each rocket rather than enhancing their weaknesses."
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54967.msg2396879#msg2396879

Some of the usual suspects piped up---and he had a great response

I encourage you to do some research on NHRO, its really the LEO of the moon. Nice and stable, good thermal environment, while still providing access to the majority of the lunar surface. A lot of the other lunar orbits are horrible for long term use as they require extensive station keeping and long term you need a infinitely sized (or other impractical sizes) radiator to keep thermals under control (https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20150019648/downloads/20150019648.pdf good paper on it). Also I believe NHRO is an "actual" lunar orbit, seeing how its an orbit, around the moon. Not sure what a fake orbit would be
grin.gif


Last I checked your car didn't need to be refueled in space, with cryogenic fluids (which behave really interestingly in microgravity and well worth looking at and researching for fun), and the gas pump didn't have to fly on a complicated rocket as well. Although I cant say 100% sure that isn't what your trip to 7-11 looks like, I'm guessing its not
smiley.gif
.

As for SLS I'm sure there is nothing I can say that would make you think about changing your mind but I will just end off with this
https://waynehale.wordpress.com/2019/11/09/what-figure-did-you-have-in-mind/


Why is there a kill it with fire attitude over there?

Are you excited yet? The launch is soon, very very soon
 
I hope all goes well.

You can track the mission with AROW:
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2022/08/19/track-nasas-artemis-i-mission-in-real-time/

Covalt went to America Space after leaving Av Week....and America Space is more pro-SLS. Space Explored doesn't quite buy into Musk worship and has reported things other won't.....both are more fair than Ars Technica:
https://spaceexplored.com/

Don't get me started on NASAWatch. I had a huge spot in my left eye yesterday and don't need another blood pressure event.

The best pix of SLS are here:
https://www.johnkrausphotos.com/Galleries/Launches/Space-Launch-System-Artemis-I/

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/QuQdKOCIsGg

I am hoping to see the Mars Basecamp lander atop SLS one day:
https://i.redd.it/mbcosay63ep11.png
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/cont...bt/Mars-Base-Camp-Update-and-New-Concepts.pdf

This is a hydrolox Starship/SuperHeavy combo, as it were.

With ice on the Moon and Mars, you don't need methane. NTRs work best with hydrogen anyway. Best specific impulse. SLS will keep energetics and hydrogen rocketry alive regardless of whether Musk can pull off Starship. MADV looks cooler too.
https://www.deviantart.com/brickmack/art/MADV-in-orbit-915733695

The pyramidal form looks less limber than Starship. Docking port in the nose...no loss of crew on ascent if something goes wrong. Stick with what works.

You might get away without MADV with this:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0094576515302071
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56167.0

I think MADV could be used for the Moon though---I have seen a stripped down version.
 
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Wish I was there next week but odds of them launching on launch day are iffy. Went through that as a kid with STS-1.
It's very exciting. Hopefully the beginning of a new age.


"As we leave the Moon at Taurus-Littrow, we leave as we came, and, God willing, we shall return, with peace and hope for all mankind.”
-Eugene Cernan, 1972
 
Launch for MON 29AUG2022 has been scrubbed at T-40:00
Engine 3 did not complete bleed as planned.

Next available launch window is 02SEP2022.
 
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