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Artemis stacking begins

That would be odd, why not stay for a few orbits while you're finally back there again?
rant filled with lack of self control, incoming.

I'm not an apologist for Artemis program. If we consider it a tack-on to the original Constellation program, this one's been trying to get off the ground almost 20 years. Mostly due to political waffling the previous 3(!) administrations. It's reached the point that SpaceX's starship will be the lunar lander, and if the powers that be were honest, doesn't really need the Artemis hardware at all. It's almost ceremonial, now. My suspicion is that once it has a few goes 'round the moon, the plan will auspiciously change and SLS/Orion will be done, last breath of the old Shuttle infrastructure. MSFC will have new toys to play with, the Northern Alabama Space Administration will be satiated, Shelby will be a nonogenarian, and the Senate Launch System will no longer be needed, not that it is now. It will have outlived most of its creators, a good many of its supporters, and will serve only as a how-not-to-do-it. Legislatures, or even space administrations, should never design a launch vehicle again.

( I just deleted a very long tedious but maybe interesting to some rant about the history of Ares V, the alternative DIRECT Jupiter 246 proposal and how that partly led to SLS and my incoherent ramblings about some of the it. I was and remain a side-mount proponent. If you are going to use the shuttle architecture, it should have been done simply. Ok I deleted that last bit but then typed it back in.) .

But in fairness to them, NASA is skipping a lot of steps that Apollo took. Artemis I is, apart from crew, a full on test to the moon without an orbital test flight. It is true that there was an Orion flight in 2014, but that was hardly even the same spacecraft. So that's a lot of things to test in one flight without adding in the extra step of an orbital injection. FRT is easier.

Artemis 2 should be the same flight, but with crew. Again a Free Return Trajectory.

Artemis 3 will have do an injection turn to match Gateway station's orbit. The HLS (Starship) will then move from Gateway to lunar orbit and then lunar landing. It will be quite a bit different from the Apollo flight scenarios.
 
short answer: lunar orbit test for Orion is not needed because now it will never actually go there.
 
and pushed back to March. I would like to see this launch in person. I hope they nail it down soon. Engine controller problem on one the motors.
 
I wanted side-mount too….but as part of an Energia-Buran Shuttle II. SLS is Energia…just top mount.

If Starship does not work out….this will be waiting. We had two EELVs…we can have two HLLVs.

Here is a site on rockets:

https://gdbarrett.com

Old and New space
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I think SLS will get a few flights, maybe 4, until the work is contacted out to SpaceX. I used to think New Armstong would be ready as well but I am not holding my breath. There will be a point the cost-per-flight compared to Starship will FINALLY come up in congress and that will be the end of it.

I am not trying to be Debbie Downer. I'm glad it's stacked. I'll be cheering NASA and the missions on. I hope i can drive down and see Artemis I launch. I've been waiting for something to happen like this for decades. We all have. But it's been 17 years to get to this point, and there won't even be a crew on board. It's just kind of ..meh. This was the best we could do. But it will get better.
 
I think SLS will get a few flights, maybe 4, until the work is contacted out to SpaceX. I used to think New Armstong would be ready as well but I am not holding my breath. There will be a point the cost-per-flight compared to Starship will FINALLY come up in congress and that will be the end of it.

I am not trying to be Debbie Downer. I'm glad it's stacked. I'll be cheering NASA and the missions on. I hope i can drive down and see Artemis I launch. I've been waiting for something to happen like this for decades. We all have. But it's been 17 years to get to this point, and there won't even be a crew on board. It's just kind of ..meh. This was the best we could do. But it will get better.

Well not too long isn't 2024 the expected manned Moon landing?
 
That's a shame
my dates were wrong about that, sorry. i think they are going for 2025. But my opinion hasn't changed. They have yet to show landing hardware, nor is Gateway ready. There are a lot of things form this point to there, but at least things are happening
 
my dates were wrong about that, sorry. i think they are going for 2025. But my opinion hasn't changed. They have yet to show landing hardware, nor is Gateway ready. There are a lot of things form this point to there, but at least things are happening

Well it would be a surprise to everyone if someone pulls a set of landing hardware out their ass in time hey?
 
Well it would be a surprise to everyone if someone pulls a set of landing hardware out their ass in time hey?
it would be a pleasant surprise. SpaceX is supposed to handle the human lander. if anyone can do it, it would be them.

The Peregrine lander (uncrewed) is supposed to launch this year, if the Vulcan rocket is ready.
 
it would be a pleasant surprise. SpaceX is supposed to handle the human lander. if anyone can do it, it would be them.

The Peregrine lander (uncrewed) is supposed to launch this year, if the Vulcan rocket is ready.

And what happened to Bezos? Didn't he have a lander proposal?
 
And what happened to Bezos? Didn't he have a lander proposal?
Blue Moon wasn't selected as the human lander, but it's still in the running for CLPS (the cargo lander program)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Lunar_Payload_Services
but it also hasn't won a contract, either.
Can't guess what goes on in contract discussions, but I suspect the Gov is getting worried about Blue Origin meeting deadlines. They've gotten burned on that before in these new era contract service systems, starting with Kistler, who was supposed to be providing cargo services to the ISS (after Kistler had its contract revoked, its share of the the award went to Orbital, who still flies Cygnus to ISS to this day)
 
Omega or Pyrios could have been flying by now…maybe with One Webs.

Apart from suborbital jaunts, Bezos has done nothing for spaceflight. His lawsuits a hindrance.

Dynetics can never get a break.
 
Omega or Pyrios could have been flying by now…maybe with One Webs.

Apart from suborbital jaunts, Bezos has done nothing for spaceflight. His lawsuits a hindrance.

Dynetics can never get a break.

I'm wondering if he was the inspiration for Ted Faro in Horizon Zero Dawn
 
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