Arrow/Flash Superhero Team-Up Spinoff In Works At CW

[Hound of UIster]

DC Comics has zero power over what characters are used in the film and animation departments of Warner Bros.

Then what about the Bat-embargo or Carlin's hold and control of the Superman. That was during the Kahn and Levitz eras, but they clearly had influence and sway and the Bat-embargo was clearly en-acted on a level above editorial and likely at a publisher level.

Also the reorganization you mentioned -- the move from NYC to Burbank, CA and the staffing changes that this resulted in -- came from a corporate initiative to closer align DC publishing with the greater (and more profitable) film/TV division of WB.

What you are talking is a series of policies that were enacted across the span of a decade starting in the early 00s. Regardless of his current standing, I'm referring to the '10 promotions and also the recent defanging of his co-publisher at DCE.

Edit: And of course this goes back to the entire issue of how he ended up hired by DC in the first place.

 

[Christopher]

DC Comics has zero power over what characters are used in the film and animation departments of Warner Bros.

Then what about the Bat-embargo or Carlin's hold and control of the Superman. That was during the Kahn and Levitz eras, but they clearly had influence and sway and the Bat-embargo was clearly en-acted on a level above editorial and likely at a publisher level.

The Bat-embargo was never about the comics restricting what TV could do; it was about the movies restricting what TV could do. Warner Bros. didn't want a live-action TV Batman competing with their movie Batman.

Hollywood is a profit-making industry. Every decision is about how to make the most money. Movies make the most money, TV shows second, comic books a very, very distant third. A successful comic book may sell in the tens of thousands at maybe 3-4 dollars apiece, while a successful movie would sell tens or hundreds of millions of tickets at 8-11 dollars apiece. DC or Marvel could stop publishing comic books altogether and it would have zero measurable impact on the film and television profits.

 

[Taylirious]

I would love a Legion Of Superheroes series on The CW. I think the current Arrow/Flash universe is enough for me.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

DC Comics has zero power over what characters are used in the film and animation departments of Warner Bros.

Then what about the Bat-embargo or Carlin's hold and control of the Superman. That was during the Kahn and Levitz eras, but they clearly had influence and sway and the Bat-embargo was clearly en-acted on a level above editorial and likely at a publisher level.

The Bat-embargo was never about the comics restricting what TV could do; it was about the movies restricting what TV could do. Warner Bros. didn't want a live-action TV Batman competing with their movie Batman.

Hollywood is a profit-making industry. Every decision is about how to make the most money. Movies make the most money, TV shows second, comic books a very, very distant third. A successful comic book may sell in the tens of thousands at maybe 3-4 dollars apiece, while a successful movie would sell tens or hundreds of millions of tickets at 8-11 dollars apiece. DC or Marvel could stop publishing comic books altogether and it would have zero measurable impact on the film and television profits.

Exactly. Warner Bros. is concerned more with the the higher grossing profit media (film, television) and comics are relegated to possibly an afterthought, if even that.

The profit margin in the comics market is so thin. The New 52 relaunch was a Hail Mary move on DC's part and (thankfully) it succeeded, but it developed out of WB's demand that DC hold a larger market share in the financial third quarter of that year. Since then, Warner Bros. has required DC to maintain those inflated levels of sales in the third quarter: hence, the Zero issue month, the Villains month, the 5YL covers month -- all in September and the beginning of the 3rd quarter.

I don't know what DC has cooked up for September this year, but if they fail to produce increased numbers or maintain their profitability, it will mean the end of the $2.99 price point (already on the endangered list) and, most likely, a regime change at DC.

Sorry. I've drifted WAY of topic in this thread. I'll let it drop here.

 

[Reverend]

DC Comics has zero power over what characters are used in the film and animation departments of Warner Bros.

Then what about the Bat-embargo or Carlin's hold and control of the Superman. That was during the Kahn and Levitz eras, but they clearly had influence and sway and the Bat-embargo was clearly en-acted on a level above editorial and likely at a publisher level.

The Bat-embargo was never about the comics restricting what TV could do; it was about the movies restricting what TV could do. Warner Bros. didn't want a live-action TV Batman competing with their movie Batman.

Hollywood is a profit-making industry. Every decision is about how to make the most money. Movies make the most money, TV shows second, comic books a very, very distant third. A successful comic book may sell in the tens of thousands at maybe 3-4 dollars apiece, while a successful movie would sell tens or hundreds of millions of tickets at 8-11 dollars apiece. DC or Marvel could stop publishing comic books altogether and it would have zero measurable impact on the film and television profits.

It's also worth keeping in mind that the various departments and subsidiaries of the WB group are notorious for their political squabbling, particularly over rights issues. Indeed, it's a culture that's actively encouraged to promote competition...in theory. In practice it just generates what at times can only be seen as a load of baffling nonsense.

It's been known for one department to actively block the development of a movie or TV show of an IP because it'd mean some other department getting the royalties and possibly beat them out of an annual bonus. Bloody imbecilic way to run a company if you ask me.

 

[Christopher]

The profit margin in the comics market is so thin.

I've heard it argued that the comics industry is hurting itself by clinging to the monthly-issues release format when so many people wait for the trades anyway. Monthly comic shops are a narrow, specialty market, largely due to the way the distribution system changed in the '90s, so they'd be better off if they'd just switch to doing comics as books, as longer trade paperbacks from the start, rather than clinging to the magazine-style monthly releases and then collecting them as books anyway.

 

[theenglish]

DC Comics has zero power over what characters are used in the film and animation departments of Warner Bros.

Then what about the Bat-embargo or Carlin's hold and control of the Superman. That was during the Kahn and Levitz eras, but they clearly had influence and sway and the Bat-embargo was clearly en-acted on a level above editorial and likely at a publisher level.

The Bat-embargo was never about the comics restricting what TV could do; it was about the movies restricting what TV could do. Warner Bros. didn't want a live-action TV Batman competing with their movie Batman.

Hollywood is a profit-making industry. Every decision is about how to make the most money. Movies make the most money, TV shows second, comic books a very, very distant third. A successful comic book may sell in the tens of thousands at maybe 3-4 dollars apiece, while a successful movie would sell tens or hundreds of millions of tickets at 8-11 dollars apiece. DC or Marvel could stop publishing comic books altogether and it would have zero measurable impact on the film and television profits.

Wouldn't Toys and Merchandising trump comic sales?

 

[theenglish]

The profit margin in the comics market is so thin.

I've heard it argued that the comics industry is hurting itself by clinging to the monthly-issues release format when so many people wait for the trades anyway. Monthly comic shops are a narrow, specialty market, largely due to the way the distribution system changed in the '90s, so they'd be better off if they'd just switch to doing comics as books, as longer trade paperbacks from the start, rather than clinging to the magazine-style monthly releases and then collecting them as books anyway.

Quarterlies or 3x a year publications would be a nice way to go. DC could publish 8-10 Quarterlies a month along with a couple of one-shots or bi-annuals. That could potential include more fringe-character stories than we get now.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

The profit margin in the comics market is so thin.

I've heard it argued that the comics industry is hurting itself by clinging to the monthly-issues release format when so many people wait for the trades anyway. Monthly comic shops are a narrow, specialty market, largely due to the way the distribution system changed in the '90s, so they'd be better off if they'd just switch to doing comics as books, as longer trade paperbacks from the start, rather than clinging to the magazine-style monthly releases and then collecting them as books anyway.

Sounds like a better sales strategy and the Big Two have certainly experimented with this idea in the past with the Earth One HCs from DC, the Season One HCs from Marvel, and now the digital first stories from both, that are later collected into dead tree editions.

The digital first stories are an ongoing venture (with DC having great success with its Batman '66 and Injustice tie-in titles) but Marvel has ceased producing new Season One HCs and DC only sporadically releases new volumes of Earth One material.

You and I have discussed this recently in the Treklit forum, Christopher, and this may be another case of comic publishers testing the waters with new subject matter or (in this case) formats, not finding immediate success, and so, abandon the format or subject matter altogether.

 

[Saga]

I would love a Legion Of Superheroes series on The CW. I think the current Arrow/Flash universe is enough for me.

agreed. the Legion seems to get little love these days.

 

[Icemizer]

Going to a quarterly trade concept would destroy the current event driven and new #1 issue gimmicks that comics current rely on for sales boosts. Trades are a pain to read in a connected universe.

 

[Christopher]

Going to a quarterly trade concept would destroy the current event driven and new #1 issue gimmicks that comics current rely on for sales boosts. Trades are a pain to read in a connected universe.

Yeah, but if the industry targeted the format that most people outside the existing, shrinking comics fanbase actually prefer reading, then they wouldn't need to rely on gimmicks to boost their dwindling sales. And being freed from a constant barrage of desperate publicity grabs would only benefit the storytelling, since authors could just tell their stories without having to get dragged off course when someone else decides to kill off their characters or reveal their identities or turn them into fugitives or vampires or whatever. (It's almost painful to read Peter David's Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man series, since every few issues he was forced to change course by the latest overarching gimmick in the Spidey books or Marvel in general, and it got in the way of the stories he was trying to tell. He still managed to write an entertaining book, but he was clearly struggling against the nonsense being imposed from outside.)

 

[DWF]

The profit margin in the comics market is so thin.

I've heard it argued that the comics industry is hurting itself by clinging to the monthly-issues release format when so many people wait for the trades anyway. Monthly comic shops are a narrow, specialty market, largely due to the way the distribution system changed in the '90s, so they'd be better off if they'd just switch to doing comics as books, as longer trade paperbacks from the start, rather than clinging to the magazine-style monthly releases and then collecting them as books anyway.

Quarterlies or 3x a year publications would be a nice way to go. DC could publish 8-10 Quarterlies a month along with a couple of one-shots or bi-annuals. That could potential include more fringe-character stories than we get now.

That kind of schedule pretty killed off Image comics of course their books were meant to be monthly but few books could keep that up.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I would love a Legion Of Superheroes series on The CW. I think the current Arrow/Flash universe is enough for me.

agreed. the Legion seems to get little love these days.

The LSH has been in a tailspin since COIE.

 

[theenglish]

I have said it before, but if comics want to continue to publish monthlies the current model needs to be abandoned or re-done. The niche market comic shop killed comics and destroyed to potential future market.

Get comics back into the supermarket checkout isles. DC and Marvel should go back to cheaper print productions in some format and have one dollar or two dollar comics right there at the check out line for kids to beg their parents to buy. Sales would skyrocket.

And it can be done by keeping current continuity. Here's how:

The editors choose series that are to be written with young buyers in mind. Similar to digital formats these comics see the light of day one or two months after the higher quality print comics are released to direct market sales. You can then have your T+ titles published alongside your G titles in the same universe with the G titles seeing the second print run. Kids and the casual readers or those who have just seen the latest movie or whatever will pick them up. If every Walmart and Target and wherever people buy their groceries has these books for the price of a candy bar or two or half the price of People or whatever people are going to pick them up. Sales would skyrocket again.

I know people say it would never happen but it is stupid not to do it, especially with super-hero movies in the mainstream.

 

[JD]

They actually did put out a bunch of cheaper trades last year that we carried at Wal-Mart in a big display with a couple of the movies. I actually thought that was a smart move, but I have no idea if anybody actually bought any.
Since I really started paying attention to comics, I've thought that only selling the individual issue at comic shops was a mistake.
Something along the lines of what Theenglish said above me really does seem like it would be a good idea. I think part of the problem now is that when most people think of comic shops, they think of people like The Simpsons Comic Book Guy, or Captain Sweatpants from The Big Bang Theory, and people who aren't familiar with comics aren't going to want to be associated with those kind of stereotypes.
And I don't know about other places, but in my area comic shops tend to be little shops in strip malls that barely anybody anybody shops at, so there aren't going to be a lot of people stumbling across the place and going in for an impulse buy.
I know if I saw comics in Wal-Mart or in the grocery store checkout line, I'd have probably started buying them a lot more often.
Does anybody know how well digital comics sell? That's how I get almost all of my comics right now.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I have said it before, but if comics want to continue to publish monthlies the current model needs to be abandoned or re-done. The niche market comic shop killed comics and destroyed to potential future market.

Get comics back into the supermarket checkout isles. DC and Marvel should go back to cheaper print productions in some format and have one dollar or two dollar comics right there at the check out line for kids to beg their parents to buy. Sales would skyrocket.

And it can be done by keeping current continuity. Here's how:

The editors choose series that are to be written with young buyers in mind. Similar to digital formats these comics see the light of day one or two months after the higher quality print comics are released to direct market sales. You can then have your T+ titles published alongside your G titles in the same universe with the G titles seeing the second print run. Kids and the casual readers or those who have just seen the latest movie or whatever will pick them up. If every Walmart and Target and wherever people buy their groceries has these books for the price of a candy bar or two or half the price of People or whatever people are going to pick them up. Sales would skyrocket again.

I know people say it would never happen but it is stupid not to do it, especially with super-hero movies in the mainstream.

Realistically, mass print comics have 10, maybe 15 years left. Sure, there will always be print comics just like there will always be print books. However, its days of being the popular medium/format are quickly coming to an end.

Digital continues to get better, easier to use, and more accessible and more functionality. And let us not forget cheaper.

Many artists are already planning frame layout to work better with digital formats, it's only a matter of time before everyone is doing it.

Once companies start making good quality, lightweight 12" tablets, things will really start to change quickly. (The current Samsungs aren't too bad, but the comic reader support is still pretty awful.)

So, instead of reverting to cheap mass market print, publishers are instead going to do the opposite and stick to collectable cover issues and the like.

 

[theenglish]

I exclusively buy digital comics now (well, apart from classic print collections like Sandman, Wachmen, etc) and read them on my first edition ipad. They look really beautiful even on that machine.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yeah. I've probably read more digital comics in my life than print ones. (Neither is a very high number.) Usually, I find them to be pretty good. But like I said, there are some where the frames are structured such that getting the panels to "look right" within the screen can be a bit awkward.

 

[theenglish]

Yeah. I've probably read more digital comics in my life than print ones. (Neither is a very high number.) Usually, I find them to be pretty good. But like I said, there are some where the frames are structured such that getting the panels to "look right" within the screen can be a bit awkward.

I love Comixology's guided view technology. It is also easy to switch back and forth, zoom in and out how you want, etc. Also, a lot of the "other" comic book companies now let you download permanently what you purchase so you can actually buy the file.