Arm the decanonizer!

[T'Girl]

"The givers of pain and delight."

 

[draderman]

I would point out to the Borg in FC that they can just go back in time earlier in the movie before they get blowed up by the fleet. In fact, they could just travel back 500 years, go to Earth, enter a low orbit and then travel back to the future and be all like "lolz suprize!" SO... I guess i would take away the Borgs ability to time travel, even tho it wasn't so bad in Timeless and Endgame.

so yeah.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

I propose that we arm the decanonizer by:

1. Removing that ridiculous exchange in "The Cloud-Minders" (TOS) where Spock is telling Droxine about pon farr. There is no way Spock would tell anyone about it apart from Kirk and McCoy (remember, he only told them under duress). He certainly wouldn't go into detail with someone he barely knew and for whom he had romantic feelings.
2. Removing "Spock's Brain." Please--it would be an act of mercy.
3. Getting rid of Q. He may be well-read, but he's still a bully, and an annoying one at that.
4. Altering Kira's and Odo's character arcs so that the progress of the relationship feels realistic and not something hastily cobbled together without substance. And while we're at it, let's have Kira offer to join Odo when he returns to his homeworld at the end of DS9.
5. Altering Enterprise so that the Temporal Cold War renders that time period nonexistent.

Now, may I trust that I haven't offended everyone here?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I love all the Q leave them alone..

 

[LadyT'Anna]

The only thing I really want removed is the last episode of ENT. Both Trip's death and the Riker/Troi nonsense.

Agreed, DCR. Trip's death was gratuitous in the extreme. I would much rather have seen the Temporal Cold War eliminate the entire Enterprise time period in the last ENT episode. That would have removed design inconsistencies such as the ENT version of the Enterprise looking brighter and more modern than NCC-1701. (Not to mention those ridiculous uniforms!) From a plot- and character-development standpoint, this remedy would remove not only the portrait of the Romulans as being unequivocally evil (the portrayal in TOS is impressively nuanced), but also the problematic relations between Earth and Vulcan.

I'd also like to see the mirror universes removed; I'm old-fashioned enough to want my heroes and heroines to stay good and stay put.

Incidentally, did anyone else notice that the starship is referred to as "Enterprise" in ENT but "the Enterprise" in TOS?

 

[LadyT'Anna]

2) The ban on genetic engineering due to the rise of warmongering 'supermen'. By the 24th century, the Federation had somehow overcome its paranoia enough to permit genetic cures, but for some reason it is still impossible for someone to have their intelligence, strength or immune system enhanced without them becoming a psychopath or mad in some other way. Except for Julian Bashir.

That is just very convenient. His family is protected by a PPDF (plot protection deviation field) so no one notices that.

Re: 2), I haven't seen Bashir called mad exactly, but plenty of people seem to think he's creepy. He's DS9's Kirk when it comes to being a ladies' man.

The part that really grated on me with regard to Bashir's family was that their accents are completely unlike his.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm sorry but the TOS Enterprise looks more dated and campy then the Enterprise NX01. It was a product of its time and budget. Sorry just my opinion. I like the look of the beautiful NX01.....

As for the uniforms they were quite practical and not pyjamas like what we had in TNG and TOS. They had zippered pockets for carrying items and looked very practical.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

On a nitpicky note:
As a Klingon-speaker, I'd like to wipe out a lot of the bad grammar.
A lot of the Klingon dialogue heard in Star Trek is really just gibberish, and I don't really mind that because I can just chalk that up to linguistic diversity; it makes perfect sense for a vast and ancient empire to house more than one language.

Hm. Watching TOS has led me to theorize that Klingons are roughly equivalent to the various peoples of the then-Soviet Union--certainly ethnically diverse, and most likely linguistically diverse as well, although we don't see Klingonee or any other Klingon language spoken in TOS. I seem to recall the Klingon wedding and/or bonding vows containing words to the effect of, "I am a Klingon." Kang's wife Mara says something very similar to her husband in "Day of the Dove," but I don't remember those words being associated specifically with wedding/bonding vows until later iterations of Trek. (Disclaimer: My information about that phrasing comes from a secondary source; please feel free to correct me if I've misrepresented anything.)

On a less nitpicky note:

I'd like to remove many of the more patriarchal elements of Klingon culture. Most importantly, I'd like to go into the episode DS9: "The House of Quark" and remove the whole thing about women needing special dispensation to serve on the Klingon High Council.

This is not because I feel that the Klingon Empire needs to be perfectly egalitarian and live up to our 21st century human view of a perfect society. In fact, I'm all in favor of them being specist, colonialist aristocrats who are all about conquest and survival of the fittest.

The reason I wish they were less patriarchal is because I feel that it feeds into an arbitrary and human view of gender roles. Klingon culture is big on warfare, violence and tests of endurance, with a side of getting drunk, singing songs and breaking stuff.
We sort of expect such a culture to favor men, because in many human cultures these are regarded as typically masculine traits. However, Klingons are not human, and therefore their view of masculinity and femininity need not match ours.
It would be nice to have show off a stereotypically macho culture in which men and women participate equally, not because the Klingons take a particularly active interest in social equality, but simply because the idea of excluding women has ever really occurred to them. It would be one way in which Star Trek could highlight how arbitrary many of our preconceptions about gender are.

Y'know, kind of like TNG: "Angel One". But hopefully less awful.

This is very interesting indeed, loghaD, and I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint. I would argue that there are instances in Trek in which Klingon women are treated very much as equals, if not a notch above. Mara in "Day of the Dove" is not only Kang's wife, but also his science officer. Dax fights like a Klingon and has so absorbed the ethos that she serves on the Rotarran and is not the only woman aboard--and Worf ends up marrying her. In "Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places," Worf makes multiple references to Grilka as "Lady Grilka," while Martok addresses his own wife as "my lady" in "You Are Cordially Invited"--because she outranks him in social status. Then, too, there are the Duras sisters as examples of strong-willed fighters.

I would argue, in short, that Klingon gender portrayals are more nuanced than they might seem at first blush.

And yes, I'm one of the world's nitpickers.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Getting rid of Q. He may be well-read, but he's still a bully, and an annoying one at that.

The Q can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go!

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Getting rid of Q. He may be well-read, but he's still a bully, and an annoying one at that.

The Q can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go!

BeatleJWOL, I'm inclined to agree with you re: the Ferengi. Much of their behavior put my teeth on edge given its consistent reliance on unflattering ethnic stereotypes--Rules of Acquisition, indeed! I will say that being accepted into Starfleet took the edge off Nog, and I felt rather sorry for Rom, but Quark could be entirely too much.

 

[T'Girl]

I rather like the Ferengi (with the exception of their first appearance), they were a interestingly drawn ideology driven society, and they provided a insight into the Federation from a outside perspective.

I've never seen their appearance or avarice as a depiction of a ethnic stereotypes.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I rather like the Ferengi (with the exception of their first appearance), they were a interestingly drawn ideology driven society, and they provided a insight into the Federation from a outside perspective.

I've never seen their appearance or avarice as a depiction of a ethnic stereotypes.

Same here. Once they'd stopped trying to make them the major villains if the 24th century, they really stood out as reflection of greed in today's culture. I particularly like that line from Rom in Bar Association about how Ferengi don't want to stop the exploitation, but to become the ones doing the exploiting. It really struck me a being very consistent of the big shot corporate climbers of the here and now.

And I took this:

The Q can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go!

as a joke...and a rather good one too

 

[loghaD]

On a less nitpicky note:

I'd like to remove many of the more patriarchal elements of Klingon culture. Most importantly, I'd like to go into the episode DS9: "The House of Quark" and remove the whole thing about women needing special dispensation to serve on the Klingon High Council.

This is not because I feel that the Klingon Empire needs to be perfectly egalitarian and live up to our 21st century human view of a perfect society. In fact, I'm all in favor of them being specist, colonialist aristocrats who are all about conquest and survival of the fittest.

The reason I wish they were less patriarchal is because I feel that it feeds into an arbitrary and human view of gender roles. Klingon culture is big on warfare, violence and tests of endurance, with a side of getting drunk, singing songs and breaking stuff.
We sort of expect such a culture to favor men, because in many human cultures these are regarded as typically masculine traits. However, Klingons are not human, and therefore their view of masculinity and femininity need not match ours.
It would be nice to have show off a stereotypically macho culture in which men and women participate equally, not because the Klingons take a particularly active interest in social equality, but simply because the idea of excluding women has ever really occurred to them. It would be one way in which Star Trek could highlight how arbitrary many of our preconceptions about gender are.

Y'know, kind of like TNG: "Angel One". But hopefully less awful.

This is very interesting indeed, loghaD, and I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint. I would argue that there are instances in Trek in which Klingon women are treated very much as equals, if not a notch above. Mara in "Day of the Dove" is not only Kang's wife, but also his science officer. Dax fights like a Klingon and has so absorbed the ethos that she serves on the Rotarran and is not the only woman aboard--and Worf ends up marrying her. In "Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places," Worf makes multiple references to Grilka as "Lady Grilka," while Martok addresses his own wife as "my lady" in "You Are Cordially Invited"--because she outranks him in social status. Then, too, there are the Duras sisters as examples of strong-willed fighters.

I would argue, in short, that Klingon gender portrayals are more nuanced than they might seem at first blush.

I don't think we're in any disagreement here: There have been many excellent female Klingon characters, and several of them great warriors or leaders.

Indeed, in most of their appearances, nothing seems to suggest that Klingon society views them as anything less than the men's equals; Worf describe them as "our partners in battle", we know Lukara fought alongside Kahless at Qam-Chee, Azetbur was chancellor of the Empire, we see women inducted into the Order of the Bat'leth, we see mixed-sex crews in Day of the Dove, A Matter of Honor, Prophecy and all episodes aboard the Rotarran...

But to me, that just makes it even more frustrating that the writers threw in this whole thing about women needing special dispensation to serve on the High Council; it strikes me as completely arbitrary and pointless, and inspired more by human history than by Klingon culture.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

I rather like the Ferengi (with the exception of their first appearance), they were a interestingly drawn ideology driven society, and they provided a insight into the Federation from a outside perspective.

I've never seen their appearance or avarice as a depiction of a ethnic stereotypes.

T'Girl, the TV Tropes site lists many examples of racial/ethnic stereotypes in science fiction (please be aware that it groups them collectively under a somewhat provocative name). Look in the Live-Action TV section for a treatment of the Ferengi.

loghaD, when it comes to examples of strong Klingon women, I drew a sketch and you turned it into a portrait. Thank you for that. I knew I was missing something, or as it turns out, quite a few somethings.

I missed something else, too, when I was composing my original list of things to decanonize. Namely, I would very much like to see "Whom Gods Destroy" removed from TOS entirely. The scriptwriter must have been asleep at the helm for this one, because when Spock is asked to differentiate between the true Kirk and an impostor, he questions both of them verbally, which is ridiculous. All he'd have to do in order to confirm their identities would be to meld with each one.

For what the observation is worth, Leonard Nimoy didn't care much for that script, either (see the memo in I Am Not Spock).

 

[eyeresist]

As for the uniforms they were quite practical and not pyjamas like what we had in TNG and TOS. They had zippered pockets for carrying items and looked very practical.

Agreed, the ENT overall uniforms looked much more practical than the later space pajamas.

Regarding Ferengis as ethnic stereostypes, I admit when they first appeared on TNG my reaction was "OMG Space Jews!" But DS9 round their culture out in interesting ways, and I can't help but like Quark.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

As for the uniforms they were quite practical and not pyjamas like what we had in TNG and TOS. They had zippered pockets for carrying items and looked very practical.

Agreed, the ENT overall uniforms looked much more practical than the later space pajamas.

Regarding Ferengis as ethnic stereostypes, I admit when they first appeared on TNG my reaction was "OMG Space Jews!" But DS9 round their culture out in interesting ways, and I can't help but like Quark.

I wish I could like Quark, but I'm afraid he sets my teeth on edge.