ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Voyager Ep Counterpoint (Season 5)

[R. Star]

We're talking Janeway here. She's 50000 + lightyears from Earth. It's her ship. She can do anything she wants. If anyone disagrees, she threatens them with a mutiny charge and a visit to the airlock. Because she can get away with it.

Tuvix agrees with this.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Tuvix can just shut the fuck up OH WAIT! He's dead

 

[R. Star]

Tuvix can just shut the fuck up OH WAIT! He's dead

And we wonder why Janeway falls for the Gestapo agent? They have so much in common.

 

[Lance]

Counterpoint is awesome. I think it stands out to me as one of the most enjoyable VOY episodes probably because its actually fairly atypical for a Voyager script, it does things and takes risks and despite obviously being standalone there's just the hint of the reset button not being pressed at the end. I remember on my first watch-through it was really one of the ones that I was gripped by from start to finish.

 

[Captain Ransom]

That is my point. Janeway is a COMPLETE prude.. She keeps chakotays balls in a jar for 7 years because he's a pussy. (He's her fallback plan LOL)

She has had ample opportunity to bang tuvok (maybe she has)..

So here comes this alpha male Kashik and she is like "wow who knows when I'll get another chance for a one night stand.. PANTIES ARE DROPPING"


That bullshit about "holding out for mark" and her dear john letter as her closure is just typical chick logic. You notice how she arbitrarily changed her hair style and got more assertive WELL BEFORE THAT (season 4 i believe)

Early on when there was hope of finding a fast way home she WAS holding out for Marc. Maybe it's "chick logic" to you but just because you're far away doesn't mean you instantly fall out of love and bang the person next to you. And what does changing her hair style have to do with it?

As far as Chakotay, she made it clear to him (and the guy from Workforce) that she WOULD NOT have a relationship with anyone under her command. If he still continued to pine after her that's his issue, not Janeway's

Why would she bang Tuvok? He is a good friend of hers, a MARRIED friend of hers.

First of all, I think the hair style change had more to do with the people in charge of the show getting more publicity making sure the show got more publicity. People seem to place a lot of emphasis on looks, so naturally, hair is a target for creating whatever "look" is thought to be more attractive.

In Relativity, Janeway goes back in time and B'Elanna sees Janeway with a different hair style than she would have had at that time.

I want to know - when, other than in the novels, did Chakotay ever express any romantic interest in Janeway?

And in Shattered, Chakotay says "There are some boundaries we never cross" or something along those lines.

Try as I might, I can't think of any kind of relationship between Chakotay and Janeway other than that of captain and first officer.

LOL whatever Kara.. you are just proving my point about chick logic. Chakotays problem? Tuvok being married? THEY ARE 70 years from home!!!

To some people, the time/distance doesn't matter. A Vulcan might very well qualify, and Chakotay (in the series) ends up with Seven of Nine. So, who is to say he or Janeway were ever each others type, or ever interested in each other at all? There is much more to life than "banging" people. And there is a huge difference between "banging" and "loving." It might sound cliche, but the mate-for-life types like me won't "share themselves" when they've promised something so important to someone they care about more than anything and it isn't any kind of challenge to avoid that kind of behavior. Despite what the media would like you to believe, not all women in this nearly rotten world are going to run around on you, but I sure do understand being misanthropic lately.

She was about to make out with that French magistrate guy in Prime Factors until Ensign Harry "Cockblocker" Kim decided he's rather interrupt and tell Janeway about the new tool he found than spend time with the chick who was all but throwing herself at him. That was in season one too, so... yeah "holding out for mark" logic rebuffed.

That was so disturbing! She disappointed me in that episode - Harry saved the day.

As far as Chakotay, she made it clear to him (and the guy from Workforce) that she WOULD NOT have a relationship with anyone under her command.

Meh...if I take the VOY novels as canon, she gladly breaks that principle.

in the novel they hooked up once and at that point he wasn't under her command

Meh...if I take the VOY novels as canon, she gladly breaks that principle.

in the novel they hooked up once and at that point he wasn't under her command

They end up together....not just hook up once, from what I got out of it. It was in the last chapter of the last novel. They are still "together" unless another book comes out and ruins it. Which I don't think will happen.

Also she was an Admiral and he was a Captain. Although not directly under her command, they were still colleagues. Also she shares quarters with him in that last scene of the book and I believe they both are working aboard his ship. I suppose that doesn't directly count as being under her command. It's a weird gray area.

But yes on the show she is clear about not getting involved with those under her command.

You have got to be joking?! =(

I can't believe this... I must never read the novels if I want to keep liking Voyager, apparently. =(

We're talking Janeway here. She's 50000 + lightyears from Earth. It's her ship. She can do anything she wants. If anyone disagrees, she threatens them with a mutiny charge and a visit to the airlock. Because she can get away with it.

As much as I love Janeway, you're right. And even though she touts the Prime Directive, I've been re-watching TNG most recently, and even Picard has to answer to someone fairly often. Furthermore, he almost never gets to make decisions solely based on his judgment - and if he does, he doesn't go for very long without being made to answer for it. Whereas, Janeway doesn't have anyone to answer to except herself and *her* interpretation of the Prime Directive.

While I don't really like the Ransom character, I thought Janeway was rather quick to jump on the idea of punishing him (someone who was in an even worse situation than she was) for behaving not entirely dissimilar to how she was behaving. And I can think of at least a few times when she knowingly broke the Prime Directive. Once was to cross a border to get home faster - she might not be killing life forms to get home, but she is still actively deciding to break the Prime Directive.

We're talking Janeway here. She's 50000 + lightyears from Earth. It's her ship. She can do anything she wants. If anyone disagrees, she threatens them with a mutiny charge and a visit to the airlock. Because she can get away with it.

Tuvix agrees with this.

Oh... =(

Poor Tuvix... He was an improvement on Neelix, but I missed Tuvok.

Counterpoint is awesome. I think it stands out to me as one of the most enjoyable VOY episodes probably because its actually fairly atypical for a Voyager script, it does things and takes risks and despite obviously being standalone there's just the hint of the reset button not being pressed at the end. I remember on my first watch-through it was really one of the ones that I was gripped by from start to finish.

I completely agree. Can you believe this episode along with "Gravity" and "Bliss" were the last Voyager episodes I watched (because my discs jammed and wouldn't play them)? I finished the series before seeing these and I can identify with the comment you made about it being "fairly atypical" for a Voyager script. I'd say quite a bit so.