My first impression of the Kazon was they styled their hair with poo.
My head canon is that particular group of Talaxian's fell into a Vaadwar subspace tunnel.
Are We All Too Harsh On The Kazon?
- Thread starter Farscape One
- Start date
"Are people too hard on the Kazon?"
Yes.
People (even professed fans of the series) are too critical of Voyages in general, though.
Yes.
People (even professed fans of the series) are too critical of Voyages in general, though.
Exploring the Kazons enslavement by the Trabe was a definite missed opportunity by the writers. The Kazon would have been a thousand times more interesting if it had turned out that they were motivated by mass generational trauma. Instead we got a bunch of supermarket brand Klingons that did a really bad job of twirling their moustaches.
The Voth should have been Voyager's main villains. They had transwarp so bumping into them thousands of light years from their home territory wouldn't have been an issue. I'll never understand why distant origin was never followed up. Perhaps the Voth's encounter with Voyager distablised their society and lead to a civil war or something. Maybe the Ministry of Elders decided to follow Voyager in the hopes of finding their origin planet and retaking it.
What disappoints me most about Voyager is how many missed opportunities there were for good stories.
The Voth should have been Voyager's main villains. They had transwarp so bumping into them thousands of light years from their home territory wouldn't have been an issue. I'll never understand why distant origin was never followed up. Perhaps the Voth's encounter with Voyager distablised their society and lead to a civil war or something. Maybe the Ministry of Elders decided to follow Voyager in the hopes of finding their origin planet and retaking it.
What disappoints me most about Voyager is how many missed opportunities there were for good stories.
That would have been ironic, since the Voth origins from millions of years ago was Earth.
The Kazon (motivation) felt weirdly 'empty' to me. So here we have a bunch of sects that are antagonistic to Voyager because, eurm, well, because they are antagonistic.
I mean, originally they were pissed off because Voyager scuttled the Caretaker's Array, and they are being portrayed as a species that wants loot. So they would pursue Voyager, yes, but not if it would cost more than their expenses than they'd gain from catching it. However, it seems that Voyager becomes their arch nemesis and they expend far more resources in capturing it than they could probably gain back.
This is then 'justified' by having the series declare that Voyager's awesome technology would make it a worthy prize. However, we soon enough learn that there are species in the area that have approximately the same or even higher technology - the Vidiians for example. And this is not just their medical technology. The very first Vidiian ship (supposedly a random ship of theirs) the brand new top of the line Voyager meets is already capable of matching their top velocity, to mention just an example.
So, yeah, it never felt entirely credible to me. And after 2 or 3 failed attempts the Kazon also would have learned that Voyager isn't as vulnerable as it appears to be, so that it isn't a convenient opportunity loot, either. But no, they keep pursuing voyager....
I mean, originally they were pissed off because Voyager scuttled the Caretaker's Array, and they are being portrayed as a species that wants loot. So they would pursue Voyager, yes, but not if it would cost more than their expenses than they'd gain from catching it. However, it seems that Voyager becomes their arch nemesis and they expend far more resources in capturing it than they could probably gain back.
This is then 'justified' by having the series declare that Voyager's awesome technology would make it a worthy prize. However, we soon enough learn that there are species in the area that have approximately the same or even higher technology - the Vidiians for example. And this is not just their medical technology. The very first Vidiian ship (supposedly a random ship of theirs) the brand new top of the line Voyager meets is already capable of matching their top velocity, to mention just an example.
So, yeah, it never felt entirely credible to me. And after 2 or 3 failed attempts the Kazon also would have learned that Voyager isn't as vulnerable as it appears to be, so that it isn't a convenient opportunity loot, either. But no, they keep pursuing voyager....
Oddly enough, I can defend the Kazon in this matter.
The Vidiians have a lot of ships. Voyager is alone with no backup. They have superior tech, but the Kazon totally outnumbered them. And Voyager was the only ship in that area to have transporter technology. Even the Vidiians didn't. Voyager didn't start encountering species with transporter technology until after the Nekrit Expanse, which by then was well outside Kazon territory.
(Sikarians only could transport between worlds with the trajector.)
The Vidiians have a lot of ships. Voyager is alone with no backup. They have superior tech, but the Kazon totally outnumbered them. And Voyager was the only ship in that area to have transporter technology. Even the Vidiians didn't. Voyager didn't start encountering species with transporter technology until after the Nekrit Expanse, which by then was well outside Kazon territory.
(Sikarians only could transport between worlds with the trajector.)
Vidiians should have had transporter technology. After all, they have those transporting devices capable of beaming organs out integrated into their tricorders.
As for the rest, the Vidiians seem to operate mostly in separate vessels, and not with a fleet of any kind, and it's not as if raiding one would incur the wrath of the entire species to go after you more than they already do in order to harvest your organs....
Or do you think the Kazon were safe until they raided the Vidiians because they consider the Kazon organs "unworthy of assimi... I mean, adaptation"?
I find it strange that as discussed the Vidiians had transporter technology built into their tricorders for harvesting organs, as well as the ability to create holographic walls that fooled Starfleet, yet didn't have actual transporter technology to beam full people.
^perhaps they actually did, but preferred not to use it as the phage already had screwed up their bodies. Or something.
Well, we know from other episodes and perhaps particularly "Our Man Bashir" that cargo transporters can make a mess of living beings, because they're not usually high enough resolution, and we know that apparently one of the major tricks to transporting living beings is dealing with their neural patterns. No idea whether organs can go through a cargo transporter by themselves without issue.
So my guess is that the Vidiians have the equivalent of cargo transporter tech but haven't gotten to the point where they can safely transport living beings yet. Give 'em a few years.
So my guess is that the Vidiians have the equivalent of cargo transporter tech but haven't gotten to the point where they can safely transport living beings yet. Give 'em a few years.
I also never liked the kazon but after rewatching voyager I think that the kazon could be distant cousins of the klingon
Perhaps kronos used to have two very intelligent species and the kazon developed more qiuckly than the klingon and left kronos in search for a new home
Perhaps kronos used to have two very intelligent species and the kazon developed more qiuckly than the klingon and left kronos in search for a new home
Basically, though, the only one to go after this big white whale beyond the first encounters is Culluh, goaded by Seska who wants the ship for wholly un-Kazon reasons. It's the heroes who bump into the other sects on their way out of Kazon/Trabe space, and get caught in intrigue chiefly driven either by Seska or by forces unrelated to and uninterested in the hero ship.
Not that Seska's motivations and intrigue made particularly good sense. But she would be entitled to Cardassian motivations, which as we know can be a bit inhuman. (Now that's the greater shame - neither VOY nor DS9 truly managing to exploit all the weird ways the Cardassians were said to be weird, such as the extreme devotion to family, or the never-ending sacrifice to the state.)
Timo Saloniemi
I struggle to find one redeeming quality in the Kazon. They were purely hostile and antagonistic. There was nothing whatsoever to like about them, or to identify with. They weren't a worthy adversary, that much is obvious... but it goes beyond that... they were just inferior.
I disagree... I don't see them as remotely interesting. Like I said above, they were nothing but hostile and antagonistic, that's it. They brought nothing whatsoever to the stories. Seven seasons? Yuck. The best part of that Seska story line was Tom giving Chakotay a hard time and then asking to be put off the ship. I disagree about Seska too... She didn't really bring anything to the table, and I didn't care for the actress, either. First of all, leaving Voyager to live among an intellectually inferior race made no sense. If she wanted to get home, her best bet was Voyager. She sealed her fate the moment she made her decision to betray the crew.
"A victim of comparison" based on what? They were horrible. They were painful to watch. They were nothing but hostile, antagonistic and treacherous to everyone, including each other. They weren't interesting because there was nothing interesting about them. You don't need to compare them to anything to see this. I think even enemies have to be interesting and have a purpose for what they do...something for the viewer to grab onto. If you want to make your comparisons... The Romulans, the Klingons, the Borg, the Dominion & the Jem Hadar, the Vidiians, the Hirogen, the Cardassians ... every foe was something beyond being just an enemy. The Kazon were just ugly. Inside and out.
I think you hit the nail on the head... they weren't likable. There was absolutely nothing to like about them. They were never a good idea, they only problem is someone didn't make the call to get rid of them sooner instead of pushing forward with them.
You keep bringing this Maquis thing up... and I don't know why. The Cardassian border was 70,000 light years away. The Maquis were fighting for what they believed in. What reasonable human(oid) is going to wage that battle 70,000 light years away from the problem, when they are trying to get home? After a few years, the Maquis would have integrated with the crew, as it had done. Voyager didn't need to beat that dead horse one second longer than it did. I think dragging that out in spite of the fact it made no sense to, would have been blatantly cheap.
Yes!
I like the Kazon. I think that the concept for them was great and hey were a great enemy for Voyager. Actually a lot better than some of those who showed up later in the series. I really liked the episodes with Culluh and Seska. A beautiful team!
Great? Kes, Tasha Yar, now the Kazon? They all have the same thing in common.... they are uninteresting, and have nowhere to go. They don't support interesting stories. The Kazon attack the ship, and try to take it over. The Kazon attack the ship, and try to take it over. The Kazon attack the ship, and try to take it over. Who would want to watch this for 7 years?
The Kazon are stupid. They "developed" more quickly, and then what? Travelled for hundreds or perhaps thousands of years, all the way to the other side of the galaxy, through Borg space, and then what? Gave themselves lobotomies and became slaves to the Trabe? The are nothing like the Klingons. After all the character development the Klingons went through... starting with the TOS movies and up to DS9 and beyond... what similarities do the Kazon have to the Klingon culture?
I fnd it strange that with all their advanced medical skills they couldn't just clone the organs that they harvested. Roaming around to find more organs just doesn't make sense.
I wasn't a fan of them, especially as the initial big bad for Voyager. They were too weak overall to for me to believe they were a real threat. I also thought their design was too reminiscent of the Klingons. They came off as low-rent looking Klingons. That being said, I liked Culluh quite a bit as a bad guy, and when I liked some of the individual characters, and "Alliances" is one of my favorite stories. I feel that they should've made the Trabe the initial antagonists over the Kazon. Though really, I think it should've been the Vidiians. They had a different motivation than other Trek villains and they were creepy. Also they were powerful enough to be a real threat to the Voyager crew.
When I learned more about the creation of the Kazon, I wasn't a fan of them being drawn from LA street gangs of the '90s, or that they were later considered unworthy even of Borg assimilation. Perhaps that was a sop or admission of how they fizzled as villains but I didn't care for that based on the real-world inspiration, as if saying the Kazon, who were inspired by gangs populated primarily by young black Americans were not worthy or had nothing of value or could add to the Borg Collective.
When I learned more about the creation of the Kazon, I wasn't a fan of them being drawn from LA street gangs of the '90s, or that they were later considered unworthy even of Borg assimilation. Perhaps that was a sop or admission of how they fizzled as villains but I didn't care for that based on the real-world inspiration, as if saying the Kazon, who were inspired by gangs populated primarily by young black Americans were not worthy or had nothing of value or could add to the Borg Collective.
The Voth weren't villains. They wanted to be left alone, with their historical beliefs intact. And they were also vastly more powerful than Voyager. There could ne no "civil war" because the information was retracted, and the population was fed propaganda, just like us.
Why wasn't the culture in "The Blink of an Eye" revisted? They were progressing a thousand times faster than normal space. That would have been interesting. And so on and so on. TNG never rehashed old stories, why would you expect Voyager to? Were you disappointed because the proto-Romulan society or the "Binars" on TNG was never mentioned again? I'm not.
I think the only place Voyager screwed the pooch was not bringing "Caretaker" full circle, because they had the opportunity to do so when they decided to write Kes off the show. She should have left the ship to rejoin her people with her rediscovered powers. She could have reawakened those abilities in her people, and freed them from their dependency on the Caretaker. Then they could have used their abilities to undo the damage the Caretaker caused to their planet, restoring the Ocampan society, and bringing the whole thing full circle. The retrn of Kes should have been positive, instead of what it was.
Edit: Thinking about this more, they screwed the pooch and then married it. The whole Maquis/Careaker/Ocampa/Stranded/Kes storyline was so simple to resolve. It didn't have to be complex, unbelieveable or unnecessarily dramatic: Kes' time on Voyager was crucial because it gave her the opportuity to her reawaken her latent abilities, she rejoins her people and helps to free them from their sheltered and protected lives. Ocampa is healed and eventually restored. Everything that happened, from the Maquis entering the badlands to Voyager destroying the Caretaker's array to Kes eventually leaving has a logical flow and a purpose.
Instead Kes leaves because she's damaging the ship (why wouldn't she also damage the shuttle?) and returning old and angry because.. well, I still don't really know why she was angry. Frankly, It was out of character, and made ZERO sense.
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