Are Vulcans lying to themselves about their emotions?

[Kor]

As for what Vulcans actually feel deep within, underneath the "controlled" exterior, we have a couple lines of dialog that address this:

VOY Gravity:
PARIS: Tuvok, everyone feels a little insane when they fall in love, but it's worth the risk.
TUVOK: For you, perhaps. But I am Vulcan. My natural emotions are erratic, volatile. If I don't control them, they will control me.

Star Trek 2009:
SAREK: Emotions run deep within our race. In many ways, more deeply than in Humans. Logic offers a serenity Humans seldom experience. The control of feelings, so that they do not control you.

Kor

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I don't think this was ever in question, even back on TOS. What I am starting to wonder though is if Vulcans really do need to repress their emotions to keep from going berserk. Because over the course of the franchise, we've seen more and more examples of Vulcan groups rejecting the strict teachings of Surak, and seemingly being just fine without it.

The Romulans, originally meant to demonstrate how violent Vulcans would be without their strict emotional discipline, have gradually become pretty much indistinguishable from humans, in terms of emotions. There is also a subculture of Vuclans that embrace their emotions (I forget which series introduced them, but they are mentioned throughout "Star Trek" media) and they presumably don't go psycho from smiling now and again either. And then there's that other Vulcan offshoot race, that thought Picard was a god, and were openly emotional; while extremely stupid, they didn't seem particularly out of control.

Do those openly-emotional Vucanoids manage their dark impulses in some way that I forgot? Or are mainstream Vulcans repressing themselves for nothing?

 

[Orphalesion]

I don't think this was ever in question, even back on TOS. What I am starting to wonder though is if Vulcans really do need to repress their emotions to keep from going berserk. Because over the course of the franchise, we've seen more and more examples of Vulcan groups rejecting the strict teachings of Surak, and seemingly being just fine without it.

It could even be speculated that Surak's teachings are what causes Vulcan emotions to be so extreme in some cases (like Pon Farr) Maybe if they let their emotions out more they wouldn't become so extreme.

Because...do we really have all that much evidence that they were hyper-violent before Surak? Sure there's the schism with the Romulans, but that's not the first time in Galactic history a group splintered in two or that a specific group was exiled over ideology.
And sure they blew themselves up in Nuclear fire, but so did we in the Star Trek universe.

It could very well be that the widespread and strict adherence to Surak's teaching was a reaction to their nuclear war, born out of panic that they might repeat it and the extreme emotions developed out of that strict control.
Because, like, the Romulans seemed fine apart from being very militaristic as early as "The Enterprise Incident" and I'm not sure whether Picard offered more insight, but I don't think any of the shows ever said that Romulans experience Pon Farr. ( I know star Trek online did, but that's non-canonical and also painted the early Romulans in a very sympathetic light and as people who left their home because they didn't want to subscribe to Surak)

 

[fireproof78]

The Vulcans have logic. The Romulans have duty and paranoia. Not sure either is fine.

 

[Orphalesion]

Not sure either is fine.

"fine" as in "not constantly slaughtering each other due to their extreme, out-of-control" emotions.

 

[fireproof78]

"fine" as in "not constantly slaughtering each other due to their extreme, out-of-control" emotions.

I believe Freud would call that sublimation.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

It could even be speculated that Surak's teachings are what causes Vulcan emotions to be so extreme in some cases (like Pon Farr) Maybe if they let their emotions out more they wouldn't become so extreme.

That's a damn good point! If that's the case, then it's also possible that it's now too late to go back, due to evolution.

Maybe the Vulcans began only somewhat more violent than Humans. Then most, as you said, panicked and took Surak's extreme solution, repressing their emotions, while the Romulans (and others) left. Over thousands of years, those extreme emotions became bred into most Vulcan families (as the more lax individuals would be less obsessed with logic, and thus ostracized and denied the chance to marry and spread their genes). The Romulans and whats-its meanwhile just reined in their violent urges the way "primitive" Humans did, before Earth became a utopia (conquest, blood sport, violent video games, etc).

BTW, I don't know if I've mentioned already, but I love your avatar and signature quote. My favorite character and episode of "Lower Decks!"

 

[Orphalesion]

BTW, I don't know if I've mentioned already, but I love your avatar and signature quote. My favorite character and episode of "Lower Decks!"

Aww thank you!
Yeah it was the episode that made me fall in unconditional love with the show and The Dog was definitely my favourite one-of character.

Your Andorian cos play is awesome BTW!

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Aww thank you!
Yeah it was the episode that made me fall in unconditional love with the show and The Dog was definitely my favourite one-of character.

Your Andorian cos play is awesome BTW!

That's not me in the picture actually, that's a promo photo from Tim Russ's fan-film "Star Trek: Renegades." I think it's actress Courtney Peldon, on the set of "Renegades." (Her Andorian character in that fan film is named Shree; in canon "Star Trek," she played the infamous Karen Farris in the DS9 episode "Valiant." Shree is infinitely more likable.)