Like the allies retook France in the second world war.
Are the Nausicaans in the Federation?
- Thread starter Arpy
- Start date
If you want statistics brought into this, 22 out of the 40 Bolians seen in all Star Trek are either serving in Starfleet, civilians employed by Starfleet, or posing as a Starfleet cadet. The main reason why their Federation membership is even a question is because there was a deleted scene in TNG establishing they were in fact non members (though, IIRC the Federation had just granted their request for membership, with the signing in ceremony expected "within a year"). But deleted scenes aren't canon, so within my own head canon, I can still consider Bolians Federation members. Even if you want to acknowledge the deleted scene, it was from TNG's 5th or 6th season, so assuming they did indeed get signed in "within a year" they're still Federation members by the time TNG ended.
Fine, then I'll do a time travel episode to the event, complete with visible date on the computer displays and a twenty minute technobabble explanation on subspace whatsits establishing this is indeed the Prime Universe with no room for interpretation.
Last edited:
The onscreen reason to doubt the Bolian membership is this:
"The Bolians are maintaining an uneasy truce with the Moropa, are they not?"
Why would it fall upon the Bolians to maintain anything in a conflict, hot or frozen or whatever? Least of all a truce, that is, a state of war? If the UFP does not even get to conduct joint foreign policy for its members, what does it get to do?
Timo Saloniemi
"The Bolians are maintaining an uneasy truce with the Moropa, are they not?"
Why would it fall upon the Bolians to maintain anything in a conflict, hot or frozen or whatever? Least of all a truce, that is, a state of war? If the UFP does not even get to conduct joint foreign policy for its members, what does it get to do?
Timo Saloniemi
^ Enemies prior to membership? Or members since then? The number and ubiquity of Bolians (from Federation ambassador, commandant of Starfleet Academy, captain of a starship, and CEO of a publishing company to barber on a starship and bartender in Ten Forward) suggests they’re the Andorians of 24th century Star Trek — instantly recognizable Federation aliens, only without the problematic antennae. I don’t think TPTB are suggesting that the main (or only) Federation aliens they’re constantly showing us are secretly not Federation aliens “we never said they were.” ...a Flying Spaghetti Monster could also be Federation emperor because they never said it wasn’t.
Besides, wasn’t the Bolian Ambassador referred to in such a way as to suggest ambassador of the Bolian people, not in reference to his personal race? It’s rare, or unheard of, in Trek for species not to represent their race in this way, let alone to this degree. The Bajorans we know are not members so their infrequent and usually low-level presence creates a different effect.
Besides, wasn’t the Bolian Ambassador referred to in such a way as to suggest ambassador of the Bolian people, not in reference to his personal race? It’s rare, or unheard of, in Trek for species not to represent their race in this way, let alone to this degree. The Bajorans we know are not members so their infrequent and usually low-level presence creates a different effect.
Last edited:
It’s also established that for non member races to get entry to Starfleet they need a special recommendation from a Commander or higher, which is why Nog needed Sisko. So it stands to reason if you frequently see a race in Starfleet probabilistically they are either members or allies with a special arrangement.
Not their place to still worry about maintaining in either case...
Me neither. It's just that not only have they failed to make their case yet, they have also made the suggestion these aren't members (once onscreen, once in a cut scene), so it's a situation of at least some of them actually thinking unlike most of them, and/or of at least some of them once having thought unlike most if them now do.
Not any differently from the usual "Vulcan Ambassador". It's in fact basically unheard of to learn whom a diplomat might represent exactly, and to whom - but there's one case in TAS "Yesteryear" of Sarek being said to be the "Ambassador to seventeen Federation planets".
No less frequent or lower-level than the Bolian presence, though, which is sort of the point. Sure, Bajoran diplomats in the UFP are 100% less common than Bolian ones (that is, zero vs. one), but there is even explicit dialogue about Starfleet sucking in as many Bajorans as they can.
It's just a matter of exposure, as you also say: if not for TNG and VOY, we might think there are no Bolians in Starfleet, and if not for DSC, we might think there are no Andorians nor Tellarites there...
Timo Saloniemi
There are Bolian Starfleet officers on DS9, too.
The Bolian admiral in "PARADISE LOST"... a background one in Quark's in several episodes wearing command division uniform... the Bolian security officer in "THE ADVERSARY"... the Saratoga Lt. in "EMISSARY"... the killed Bolian officer in "FIELD OF FIRE".
I think there are more Bolian officers on DS9 episodes than all the other shows put together.
The Bolian admiral in "PARADISE LOST"... a background one in Quark's in several episodes wearing command division uniform... the Bolian security officer in "THE ADVERSARY"... the Saratoga Lt. in "EMISSARY"... the killed Bolian officer in "FIELD OF FIRE".
I think there are more Bolian officers on DS9 episodes than all the other shows put together.
Cut scenes (from decades ago) carry less weight than Treklit. That is, none in canon. And I’d be keener to accept Treklit than cut scenes overall.
Everything mentioned by everyone above (including statements you’re choosing to ignore) should be enough infer a logical conclusion.
TAS may carry less weight than the Treklit, but even there, Sarek was likely Federation ambassador to the seventeen planets of the Vulcan memberworld.
There are Bolians in Starfleet in every 24th incarnation of Trek and Andorian Starfleeters seen in TVH.
Thing is, in all Star Trek we've seen many more Bajorans than Bolians. But of all the Bajorans we've seen, only seven were in Starfleet. And of those, one (Kira) was a Bajoran Militia officer granted a wartime commission, and three were Maquis serving on Voyager. And of them, one was in fact a Cardassian disguised as a Bajoran. Meaning only there's only three Bajorans who got into Starfleet the traditional way.
My (never submitted) TNG spec script was about an independent world within Federation space that, after a change of government, decides to ally with the Romulans. Sort of Cuban missile crisis.
joint policy sure, but there would be times for individual action too. show that they don't need the federation for every little thing.
given that treklit counts for nothing, yeah sure.
it was on screen so would count for more.
Cut scenes, by definition, never made it on screen. They were judged unworthy and cut before release to the masses for artistic consideration. Unlike Treklit.
TAS made it to screen, then was “de-canonized” by TPTB. Ouch.
Lit isn’t canon I think for mostly for copyright reasons — they’d have to shell out lots of cash. This has the added benefit of leaving the writers to do whatever they like without having to consider the EU. Unlike in Star Wars which is surprisingly connected on screen and in the lit.
Conversely, TAS I think is not canon for artistic reasons. (i.e. the forcefield EV suits and other things they didn’t want to have to adhere to in live action.)
Last edited:
Similar threads
