Quite a few more than that, even a Klingon one that Archer appropriated.
Are lifeboats generally practical?
- Thread starter Hando
- Start date
I would agree, there will be times and situations where a lifeboat is completely useless.
Is there such a radius?
The Romulans of "The Deadly Years" saw nothing to fear from the impending death of the Enterprise - until Kirk made mention of the special corbomite scuttling charges...
It might well be that lifeboats have nothing to fear from "natural" starship demises, either. The biggest risk might come from a low-odds impact of shrapnel; there'd be no pressure wave of the sort found in atmospheres, oceans or other such mediums; and the brief touch of the high-velocity expanding sphere of gases might be but a mild breeze, especially if the boats are capable of shuttlepod-style high impulse travel through the interstellar medium, i.e. come equipped with the Trek magic for dealing with that medium. Radiation - neutrons, gamma, heavy nuclei, exotics like delta? Bah, shields exist for that very purpose, and are found on very small craft elsewhere in Trek.
That's one possible way of looking at it. Might be warp core explosions are deadlier than that, but nothing on screen points at this.
Timo Saloniemi
The Romulans of "The Deadly Years" saw nothing to fear from the impending death of the Enterprise - until Kirk made mention of the special corbomite scuttling charges...
It might well be that lifeboats have nothing to fear from "natural" starship demises, either. The biggest risk might come from a low-odds impact of shrapnel; there'd be no pressure wave of the sort found in atmospheres, oceans or other such mediums; and the brief touch of the high-velocity expanding sphere of gases might be but a mild breeze, especially if the boats are capable of shuttlepod-style high impulse travel through the interstellar medium, i.e. come equipped with the Trek magic for dealing with that medium. Radiation - neutrons, gamma, heavy nuclei, exotics like delta? Bah, shields exist for that very purpose, and are found on very small craft elsewhere in Trek.
That's one possible way of looking at it. Might be warp core explosions are deadlier than that, but nothing on screen points at this.
Timo Saloniemi
That would depend on how much lead time you had. Also do the antimatter storage bottles "break open" when the ship is destroyed? In Time Scape and Generations when the Enterprise's warp core loses containment, I think it pretty obvious that both times the bottles stay intact, likely simply thrown clear of the explosion.
Indeed, the famed ejection systems might exist largely to reduce the magnitude of the final explosion, even when they are nearly useless in actually preventing one.
But in "Contagion", we saw what happens when antimatter containment does fail, and the explosion was no more spectacular or dangerous to nearby vessels than the ones mentioned above...
Timo Saloniemi
But in "Contagion", we saw what happens when antimatter containment does fail, and the explosion was no more spectacular or dangerous to nearby vessels than the ones mentioned above...
Timo Saloniemi
Well, "ounces" could be siphoned off for blasting the Vampire Cloud in "Obsession".
Is that 21st century ounces, or some sort of futuro-ounces from a metric society that has recycled all the now outdated basic units for other purposes? The potency of the explosive in "Obsession" might point towards the latter...
Timo Saloniemi
Is that 21st century ounces, or some sort of futuro-ounces from a metric society that has recycled all the now outdated basic units for other purposes? The potency of the explosive in "Obsession" might point towards the latter...
Timo Saloniemi
Going off on a minor tangent, is it possible that the Borg detected something strange about Sisko's lifesigns (since he was born from one of the Prophets that had taken human form) and blasted Saratoga to keep it from firing on the cube while they held it in a tractor beam until they could focus their attentions on beaming Sisko over to the cube for further study, or sending a Borg away team to seize him? After all, the possibility of finding something about him that would add to their perfection would help an in-universe explanation on why the cube tractored Saratoga instead of outright obliterating her, AND kept her tractored until her warp core went up...
Thanks to everyone, especially Timo and Crazy Eddie, for the vigorous discussions about the Wolf 359 battle. There are still some unanswered questions and I appreciate viewing the informed speculation. I'm still of the general opinion that Endeavour was present a la comments in Amasov's log as spoken of in Voyager's "Scorpion", took some damage that affected her communications (leaving her unable to send word to Starfleet or Enterprise-D that she had conducted rescue operations) and her ability to do battle, the crew warped a sufficient distance away from the battle scene to keep the ship from being destroyed, and after detecting that the Borg cube had moved along, returned to the scene of the battle to collect escape pods, beam out survivors from wrecked ships, etc, then warped away to the nearest Starbase (clearly, not Earth). Thus, when Enterprise-D arrived and scanned the wreckage and found no survivors, they were free to pursue the cube, both moving the plot along quickly enough but also providing an in-universe explanation for not needing to stop and conduct rescue operations, or detach a bunch of shuttles to round up escape pods and beam people out of wrecked ships while Enterprise-D continued for Earth.
And if I remember on-screen dialogue well enough, they DID scan the wreckage and found no survivors. There was no mention of scanning for escape pods specifically, but I can't imagine that the crew would NOT also scan for escape pods, which may or may not have moved some distance away from the battle, but would certainly be within sensor range. And if there were escape pods, or survivors on wrecked ships that had access to subspace communications, they would have sought help immediately once they saw a Galaxy-class starship prowling through the ship graveyard. And escape pods would have been actively looking for help once the Borg left, having no further reason to "lay low".
Now, I grant that escape pods might have turned off their transponders and distress beacons once they saw the cube tractor a bunch of them in for assimilation, that's entirely possible, but once the cube had left, they'd have turned them back on and waited for rescue. Even then, I find it difficult to believe that Federation escape pods could hide from Borg sensors. I would imagine the Borg sucked in enough personnel to make whole any losses they suffered during battle, then continued on their merry way towards Earth. That would both explain how Federation (and Klingon, from the handful of Klingon ships that Hansen said were enroute...) personnel were Borgified and found in the Delta Quadrant, as well as why Sisko and others survived...once the Borg had replenished any personnel losses, it would be irrelevant to continue to harvest the occupants of the escape pods, especially when they clearly had places to be and things to do. And this left Endeavour, no longer a threat to the Borg and well outside the area of battle, free to come back in and sweep things up when the cube left, conveniently leaving Enterprise-D free to come through the graveyard, pronounce everybody still around well and dead, and move along to Earth.
Thanks to everyone, especially Timo and Crazy Eddie, for the vigorous discussions about the Wolf 359 battle. There are still some unanswered questions and I appreciate viewing the informed speculation. I'm still of the general opinion that Endeavour was present a la comments in Amasov's log as spoken of in Voyager's "Scorpion", took some damage that affected her communications (leaving her unable to send word to Starfleet or Enterprise-D that she had conducted rescue operations) and her ability to do battle, the crew warped a sufficient distance away from the battle scene to keep the ship from being destroyed, and after detecting that the Borg cube had moved along, returned to the scene of the battle to collect escape pods, beam out survivors from wrecked ships, etc, then warped away to the nearest Starbase (clearly, not Earth). Thus, when Enterprise-D arrived and scanned the wreckage and found no survivors, they were free to pursue the cube, both moving the plot along quickly enough but also providing an in-universe explanation for not needing to stop and conduct rescue operations, or detach a bunch of shuttles to round up escape pods and beam people out of wrecked ships while Enterprise-D continued for Earth.
And if I remember on-screen dialogue well enough, they DID scan the wreckage and found no survivors. There was no mention of scanning for escape pods specifically, but I can't imagine that the crew would NOT also scan for escape pods, which may or may not have moved some distance away from the battle, but would certainly be within sensor range. And if there were escape pods, or survivors on wrecked ships that had access to subspace communications, they would have sought help immediately once they saw a Galaxy-class starship prowling through the ship graveyard. And escape pods would have been actively looking for help once the Borg left, having no further reason to "lay low".
Now, I grant that escape pods might have turned off their transponders and distress beacons once they saw the cube tractor a bunch of them in for assimilation, that's entirely possible, but once the cube had left, they'd have turned them back on and waited for rescue. Even then, I find it difficult to believe that Federation escape pods could hide from Borg sensors. I would imagine the Borg sucked in enough personnel to make whole any losses they suffered during battle, then continued on their merry way towards Earth. That would both explain how Federation (and Klingon, from the handful of Klingon ships that Hansen said were enroute...) personnel were Borgified and found in the Delta Quadrant, as well as why Sisko and others survived...once the Borg had replenished any personnel losses, it would be irrelevant to continue to harvest the occupants of the escape pods, especially when they clearly had places to be and things to do. And this left Endeavour, no longer a threat to the Borg and well outside the area of battle, free to come back in and sweep things up when the cube left, conveniently leaving Enterprise-D free to come through the graveyard, pronounce everybody still around well and dead, and move along to Earth.
Starborn Dragon
Captain
Well, during a battle not very, since an enemy can commit an atrocity by firing on them.
But they're not meant for a battle, they are meant for some sort of disaster.
But they're not meant for a battle, they are meant for some sort of disaster.
...Of which a battle is a typical example!
The enemy also fires at starships. Why is that not an atrocity? If the point is to destroy the enemy, then it makes little sense to stop halfway through and let the experienced crew (a major element in the fighting power of the enemy) live. If terrorists start lobbing hand grenades in a political rally, is it really bad form for the security to gun them down after they have delivered their ordnance and are trying to get away? They'll be back tomorrow otherwise!
In any case, Starfleet apparently puts weaponry on its lifepods (as seen in their design, even though those phaser strips never see action) and on its hospital ships (where the armament clearly installed on the ship model is confirmed in dialogue even if not seen in action). The concept of evacuees not being valid targets in combat has apparently been abandoned by all sides involved.
Timo Saloniemi
The enemy also fires at starships. Why is that not an atrocity? If the point is to destroy the enemy, then it makes little sense to stop halfway through and let the experienced crew (a major element in the fighting power of the enemy) live. If terrorists start lobbing hand grenades in a political rally, is it really bad form for the security to gun them down after they have delivered their ordnance and are trying to get away? They'll be back tomorrow otherwise!
In any case, Starfleet apparently puts weaponry on its lifepods (as seen in their design, even though those phaser strips never see action) and on its hospital ships (where the armament clearly installed on the ship model is confirmed in dialogue even if not seen in action). The concept of evacuees not being valid targets in combat has apparently been abandoned by all sides involved.
Timo Saloniemi
Starborn Dragon
Captain
Well, during a battle not very, since an enemy can commit an atrocity by firing on them.
But they're not meant for a battle, they are meant for some sort of disaster.
But they're not meant for a battle, they are meant for some sort of disaster.
You're not going to abandon ship in the middle of a battle unless there's a damned good reason to do so. Yes, once away from your "more dangerious than the enemy" ship, the enemy may (or may not) fire on you. But if you have no choice but to take to the lifeboats, then you do so, during a battle or not.
What lifeboats are is a option and a asset, whether you employed them is a decision.
What lifeboats are is a option and a asset, whether you employed them is a decision.
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