Spoilers Are commodores of Starfleet admirals?

[The Wormhole]

Trek has a long and rich history of pip messups. Tuvok long had a Lt JG rank yet was always referred to as a Lt Cdr, etc.

If you're referring to the first season, he was supposed to be a Lieutenant but wore Lt Commander's insignia. When they did correct this, Tom and B'Elanna, who had been wearing full Lieutenant's insignia began wearing Lieutenant JG's insignia, to represent that Tuvok was supposed to have seniority over them.

Then you get into one of the more interesting nitpick situations in the show, in the later seasons they have flashback scenes set during the first season, they have Tuvok wearing Lt Commander's insignia. As one nitpicking website put it "I don't know how to flag this one. It is wrong, but it's also consistent."

 

[valkyrie013]

1 pip admiral and commodore are the same rank. just different billets. Crusher isn't incharge of any ship, she's in charge of a desk, or a campus. Geordi is in charge of a space dock, with more than 1 vessel attached, so he gets to be called commodore instead of admiral.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Commodore

Mem Alpha has the same thinking as me it seems, if your in charge of a starbase, station etc. your a 1 pip admiral. Weither your called an admiral or commodore seems to be if your in charge of any ships. Beverly seems to be in charge of a campus. so doesn't get to be called commodore.

 

[The Wormhole]

1 pip admiral and commodore are the same rank. just different billets. Crusher isn't incharge of any ship, she's in charge of a desk, or a campus. Geordi is in charge of a space dock, with more than 1 vessel attached, so he gets to be called commodore instead of admiral.

The how do you explain Commodore Oh who had a desk job on Earth and wasn't in command of a ship?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The how do you explain Commodore Oh who had a desk job on Earth and wasn't in command of a ship?

He'll get back to us.....

 

[valkyrie013]

Romulan ships count?

 

[fireproof78]

The how do you explain Commodore Oh who had a desk job on Earth and wasn't in command of a ship?

Unless she oversees specific security vessels as part of her billet.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Unless she oversees specific security vessels as part of her billet.

Like some of those uber-secret S31 ships?

 

[Avro Arrow]

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Commodore

MA is still insisting on that whole “lower half” thing? IIRC, that has never been uttered in a single instalment of Star Trek, ever.

I’m sure it’s just a discrepancy between costuming and dialogue, which again, happens all the time. Probably best for MA to not try to rationalize it… that way lies madness. Because then you’ve got to explain whatever it is that’s going on over on SNW!

 

[valkyrie013]

MA is still insisting on that whole “lower half” thing? IIRC, that has never been uttered in a single instalment of Star Trek, ever.

I’m sure it’s just a discrepancy between costuming and dialogue, which again, happens all the time. Probably best for MA to not try to rationalize it… that way lies madness. Because then you’ve got to explain whatever it is that’s going on over on SNW!

Well, never really shown a 1 pip admiral until Beverly. So have to do mental gymnastics for just her. rest of the time it seems 1 pip is Commodore.

If your called an admiral, its usually 2 pips and up, like Kirk in Tmp was a 2 pip admiral.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(rank)

Basically turned into Rear Admiral lower half for the US navy in the 80's, so when Kirk was promoted to admiral, he was a 2 star. Rear admiral upper half. or just Rear admiral back then.

Commodore in historical sense were in command of more than 1 ship, submarine, air group etc.
For Trek, in TOS, Starbase commanders were Commodores. Westley and Decker were incharge of multiple ships, maybe just assigned to the same sector, or like the M5 trial, Westley was in charge of 4 ships. but still commanded his own.

why Beverly isn't called a commodore? don't know. maybe one of those numerous rank fluff ups, of Maybe she should have had 2 pips.

So basically, looking at past trek history 1 pip = commodore. 2 pip and up Admiral.

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe she should have had 2 pips.

That's what I'm thinking. The actual Surgeon General of the US Navy is a two star Rear Admiral, though prior to 2019 the position was held by a three star Vice Admiral. Throughout the 20th century the position seemed to fluctuate between being held by Rear or Vice Admirals. Commodores held the position in the 19th century, with the last one being leaving office in 1897. Given Starfleet is almost always depicted as the 20th/21st century US Navy in space, it seems more likely the head of their medical division is indeed supposed to be either a Rear or Vice Admiral, but since they haven't made any two or three star flag rank insignia for this show, costuming/props just gave her a single star insignia for expedience.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, just Lionel Ritchie.

 

[voyager1]

Commodore is a Captain level rank but one who commands more than one ship aka a squadron. Makes sense for Geordi since he has all the ships of the museum.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But why admiral wears commodore rank pip?

Corn-related issues, usually.

 

[DEWLine]

As head of a divsion (Starfleet Medical) Crusher would be an Admiral
As administrator/head curator/director of the Starfleet Museum (not a divison)..Geordi is appropriately a Commodore.

Regional director. Not director of the whole department. That's my thinking re: Geordi, Beverly, and Nedar's cover ID as "Oh".

 

[Spike730]

But why admiral wears commodore rank pip?

Because they didn‘t bother to make a 2 pip rank pin.

 

[Spike730]

Well, never really shown a 1 pip admiral until Beverly.

Jameson and Quinn technically were 1 pip admirals.

 

[valkyrie013]

Jameson and Quinn technically were 1 pip admirals.

then its interchangeable depending on.. Something something darkness something.. that differentiates being called an admiral or a commodore. Maybe like the US Navy, they redone the rank structure at some time.

 

[fireproof78]

Probably multiple times, depending on new members.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Commodore is a Captain level rank but one who commands more than one ship aka a squadron. Makes sense for Geordi since he has all the ships of the museum.

Nope. That's the billet of Commodore as used by the United States, not the rank.

Spoiler: What we call Squadron Commanders

Per SNW: Lost in Translation, non-flag officer (acting) squadron commanders are Fleet Captains not Commodores

 

[Jedi Marso]

It can be confusing, especially when mixed in with real world descriptions.

In the U.S. Navy, commodore used to be the lowest flag rank, now referred to as 'rear admiral, lower half.'

The term 'commodore' is still used, however, as a form of address to the commander of a destroyer or submarine squadron, or a land-based air wing. (Carrier based wing commanders are referred to as 'CAG' for reasons I'll leave alone here). Such a squadron / wing commander is usually a captain, or O-6, but since ship's commanders (even at the O-4 or O-5 rank) are addressed as 'captain', the commodore title is used instead as a way of acknowledging the squadron commander's rank and authority.

In Trek, 'commodore' appears to have its older usage- that is, as the lowest flag rank. The fact that Commodore Decker commanded Constellation was a mere plot trick to make him senior in rank to Kirk, so that there could be that conflict when he tried to commandeer the center seat on Enterprise. It's the only time we've seen a flag rank officer commanding a starship (except for Kirk himself), and that's why.

I think the term 'Fleet Captain' in Trek should be considered the same form of address that 'commodore' fills in the modern navy- that of a squadron commander, or in particular, when there is a grouping of ships with no flag officer present to assume command of the entire force. In that case, an officer is designated 'fleet captain' and assumes overall command of the assembled ships. Like Pike in the Nebula when they were building the fueling station. I would imagine that being designated a 'Fleet Captain' in Starfleet is considered something of an honor, and someone with that designation automatically assumes that role in any situation where it is appropriate. If two Fleet Captains are present, then the senior one would naturally assume command, or command would be designated by Starfleet Command.

There is also a bit of precedent in the Royal Navy, I believe. The captain of the ship with a flag officer is (or used to be, in the age of sail) referred to as the 'Flag Captain.' However, I'm not sure what measure of extra authority, if any, that title carried.

The USN descriptions are factual, while the Trek ones are merely my opinion. Just so the two aren't confused.