Are Comedy Sequels Inherently Bad?

[The Borgified Corpse]

Gremlins 2: The New Batch. Gremlins just doesn't work for me and brings up a lot of plot threads that never go anywhere. Only the Gremlins themselves provide any real interest. Gremlins 2 turns the insanity dial up to 11 and is filled with some great supporting actors like John Glover, Christopher Lee, Robert Picardo, and a brilliantly self-effacing Leonard Maltin.

Addams Family Values has a tighter plot than the original and has the added extreme of the equally bizarre super perky people at Camp Chippewa.

Maybe not in terms of laughs, but I always thought BTTF2 was the best of the trilogy. (Though I know I'm one of only a slight few that thinks that.)

While I love all of them in different ways, I think Part II is the most rewatchable movie in that series. It hits the ground running with "Marty! You've gotta come back with me!" and doesn't stop until "Oh, I know, you did send me back to the future, but I'm back. I'm back from the future." But I agree that Part I is the funniest in that series. And honestly, I love all of them more as sci-fi movies than as comedies.

 

[Greg Cox]

Agreed. Addams Family Values is much better than the first film, in part because they realized that Christina Ricci as Wednesday was comic gold and beefed up her part accordingly. And, yeah, the whole summer camp sequence is great.

 

[Goji]

Addams Family Values is the movie I thought of first when I read the thread title.

I have to disagree about the second Bill & Ted movie though, it starts off promisingly and I liked that it isn't so much of a rehash of the first movie, but it gets derailed around the time aliens of all things get thrown into the mix and never fully recovers. Not a bad film at all, mind you, but the original is a lot stronger.

I also like the second Naked Gun film about as much as the first. I don't think it's a better film than the first, but they have an equal number of really good moments as far as I'm concerned. Which can't be said about the third, but whatever.

 

[Harvey]

Chasing Amy is a better film than Mallrats, although it's about on par with Clerks.

 

[stj]

The rule of thumb is, all sequels are inherently inferior, for the simple reason that the story has already been told.

There are a few exceptions because occasionally someone thinks of a better story to tell. This is exceptional for the simple reason that most people have the sense to tell the best story they can the first time. And rules of thumbs are not laws, and genuine geniuses can break all the rules anyhow.

 

[Timby]

The only legitimately great comedy sequels I can think of are Christmas Vacation and maybe The Great Muppet Caper.

Gremlins 2 gets an honorable mention for being bugnuts fucking psycho crazy and being completely different from the original. Which makes sense; Dante didn't like the original film (and if you think about it, a ton of the jokes in the sequel are completely taking the piss out of how serious and grisly the first movie was), and he only did the second after WB said he could make any movie he wanted as long as it was 90 to 120 minutes long and had the name Gremlins 2. I also love that the Genetic Engineering Lab was created as the way to convince Rick Baker to work on the movie, since he didn't want to just re-use someone else's designs.

Really, on its own, Gremlins 2 is merely weird as shit, but from a historical perspective I have to respect what Joe Dante did with it, because it's one of the forerunners of the the self-referential, "ironic" brand of modern humor (Hulk Hogan in the movie theater, for example) that is responsible for Seth McFarlane's entire career.

 

[Greg Cox]

The rule of thumb is, all sequels are inherently inferior, for the simple reason that the story has already been told.

.

Although, where movies are concerned, the second film is sometimes better because the filmmakers have more money, more freedom, more experience, and have already gotten all the set-up out of the way . . . .

Hence, THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, THE WRATH OF KHAN, X2, etc.

 

[I Grok Spock]

I'm surprised at all the AP2 love. I thought the first one succeeded as both a note-perfect Bond spoof and fish-out-of-water comedy. I found the second one weaker in just about every dimension summed up by the wooden Heather Graham.

 

[stj]

Although, where movies are concerned, the second film is sometimes better because the filmmakers have more money, more freedom, more experience, and have already gotten all the set-up out of the way . . . .

Hence, THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, THE WRATH OF KHAN, X2, etc.

The only one of those I agree with is Bride of Frankenstein. So far from setting up Bride, they had to explain their way out of the ending of the first movie. Bride of Frankenstein was better in some ways because it was so original, ignoring Mary Shelley and much of the first movie and going its own loopy way. Dr. Pretorius and little people in glass bottles! Plus, James Whale et al. didn't need more experience, they were already masters.

Wrath of Khan had less money, less experienced people, less freedom. I think rationally you have to say it was the studio's insistence on a more commercial property rather than science fictional sense of wonder etc. that made Wrath of Khan so beloved. While I like it too, some of it is cringeworthy bad.

X2 wasn't as good as the first movie. My opinion, but I can't see how anyone really loves the overload of Wolverine love and the way Jean gets pushed under the lake (because, you know, she didn't seem to have any good reason of her own to go under, did she?) Besides, the last third drags very, very badly. I liked seeing Wolverine choose to help someone in the first movie. But his story was done. X2 is to my mind a great example of what I meant.

Empire Strikes Back is the first half of a two part story. If Return of the Jedi had never been made, people would have deeply mourned being left hanging. The implication is you didn't like Return of the Jedi. But, even if you did, experience didn't help Lucas with any of the flaws of the first movie, freedom didn't help with any of the flaws of the first movie and so far as getting the set-up out of the way goes, he had to go and do more set-up in the movie itself. The best made movie of the series was Star Wars, despite flaws like Han shooting first.

But it's true there are some exceptions. The thing with generalizations is, they are general. The usefulness of the generalization is setting the context. To put it another way, superior sequels are notably exceptional precisely because generally the first movie is the best. Which seems such an inoffensive but true statement I'm not quite sure what provokes an argument.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Chasing Amy is a better film than Mallrats, although it's about on par with Clerks.

Is it really considered a sequel, even if there are some common characters?

I think Kevin just liked having certain characters reappear.

 

[Harvey]

It's a pretty loose sequel, it's true, since the recurring characters (Jay and Silent Bob) only show up during one scene near the end. But other events are referenced (the girl who drowned at the pool) mentioned from the previous two films, too.

 

[the G-man]

I wouldn't call any of them, except for "Clerks 2" a sequel. It's more a "shared universe" thing, not unlike the Marvel films. Amy is no more a sequel to Mallrats or Clerks than Iron Man is to Captain America.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^I suppose Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back might be a sequel to the other movies in the same way that Elektra is a sequel to Daredevil or The Avengers is a cumulative sequel to Captain America, Iron Man 2, & Thor.

Agreed. Addams Family Values is much better than the first film, in part because they realized that Christina Ricci as Wednesday was comic gold and beefed up her part accordingly. And, yeah, the whole summer camp sequence is great.

I love the Harmony Hut.
"How long are we supposed to stay in here?"
"Until we crack."

One of my other favorite sequences is at the end when Debbie has them all tied up and gives her little speech about how completely misunderstood & justified she was when she killed all those other people.

The only legitimately great comedy sequels I can think of are Christmas Vacation and maybe The Great Muppet Caper.

Ooh! I forgot about The Great Muppet Caper. I love the cab driver in that one.

"How long have you lived in London?"
"All my life."
"Then why don't you have a British accent?"
"Oh, that's okay. I don't even have a drivers license."

"What room are you in?"
"I don't know but we're on the 2nd floor."
"Oh. Sorry. I can only take you as far as the lobby."

I'd also take A Muppet Christmas Carol over The Muppet Movie.

Gremlins 2 gets an honorable mention for being bugnuts fucking psycho crazy and being completely different from the original. Which makes sense; Dante didn't like the original film (and if you think about it, a ton of the jokes in the sequel are completely taking the piss out of how serious and grisly the first movie was), and he only did the second after WB said he could make any movie he wanted as long as it was 90 to 120 minutes long and had the name Gremlins 2. I also love that the Genetic Engineering Lab was created as the way to convince Rick Baker to work on the movie, since he didn't want to just re-use someone else's designs.

Really, on its own, Gremlins 2 is merely weird as shit, but from a historical perspective I have to respect what Joe Dante did with it, because it's one of the forerunners of the the self-referential, "ironic" brand of modern humor (Hulk Hogan in the movie theater, for example) that is responsible for Seth McFarlane's entire career.

Yeah. I especially loved the pisstake on Kate's Christmas story from the 1st movie when she starts telling a story about how some creepy guy in the park flashed her on Lincoln's Birthday.

When I used to work at a used bookstore, whenever it got really slow on Sunday nights, the manager would get on the loudspeaker and start reading excepts from the Gremlins 2 novelization.