Are all episodes of TOS canon in ST 1-6?

[Seven of Five]

It all happened. Sybok, Warp 10, the dog pissing on some sacred trees, trans-Quark and Riker's boring flashbacks.

I do love all this canon talk, like Star Trek is some huge religion and a lot of people have their own version of said religion, which all differ to some degree. It's all weird.

It's much easier to just talk about which aspects of all the series and films you like, whilst also acknowledging the duds.

 

[Terok Nor]

Why? The main seven were all considered regulars, even if they weren't in every single episode. Chapel and Rand weren't.

Rand was a regular but what difference does that make? Surely if a minor reference to a previous episode is enough to make something canon with the movies then the presence of the entire main cast is good enough to make all 79 episodes canon

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Rand was a regular but what difference does that make? Surely if a minor reference to a previous episode is enough to make something canon with the movies then the presence of the entire main cast is good enough to make all 79 episodes canon

Of course, but it's fun to try and do it this way, just as a thought exercise. Sorry you're being too anal to enjoy it.

 

[Terok Nor]

Of course, but it's fun to try and do it this way, just as a thought exercise. Sorry you're being too anal to enjoy it.

I'm being anal?

I think you need to look up the defintion of the word.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The original poster proposed a game. I played along by the rules of the game a couple of nights ago to help me sleep. You came into the thread, and said, "I don't know why you're playing this game, and anyway, you're doing it all wrong. You should be doing it like this instead." While adding absolutely nothing else to the conversation.

So yeah, I'd say you're being anal.

 

[Terok Nor]

The original poster proposed a game. I played along by the rules of the game a couple of nights ago to help me sleep. You came into the thread, and said, "I don't know why you're playing this game, and anyway, you're doing it all wrong. You should be doing it like this instead." While adding absolutely nothing else to the conversation.

So yeah, I'd say you're being anal.

In what universe is someone who considers all 79 episodes to be canon with the movies more anal than someone who nitpicks each and every detail of those 79 episodes in order to make them fit into the movie series? My original reply was tongue-in-cheek in the first place if you re-read my post!

Also, where in the original post did the OP propose this game you speak of?

 

[Peach Wookiee]

TerokNor, JohnnyQuest307, keep it civil.

 

[One Lucky Red Shirt]

Yes everything is cannon n everything did happen. But the crew do try to forget spocks brain n space hippies. Im sure everyone who witnessed those asked spock to remove those memories from their memory. They also asked spock to replace all the cheesy fx in their memories to movie quality fx and asked him to wipe out all the bad dramatic shatner acting and speeches. Even though its all fun entertainment and the best show out there. Poor spock. He had to do so much overtime.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Of course Space Seed is canon given WoK, but I am curious as to (in terms of internal chronology/consistency) how/what level of canon the rest of TOS is viewed within the context of the first six Star Trek movies?

As with every iteration of Trek, the writers, producers and directors pick and choose which things to keep and which things to ignore. Khan's followers are Arayn youths in Wrath of Khan, they're not in "Space Seed". Khan himself lost his skin-darkening makeup and is noticeably whiter in Wrath than SS.

The events of TOS happened in Broad Strokes in the movies, and later productions.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Khan himself lost his skin-darkening makeup and is noticeably whiter in Wrath than SS.

This technicality always irks me. No one knows what spending 15 years exposed to the elements and god-knows-what on Ceti Alpha V would do to human skin. Maybe it changes pigment.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Lance]

Roddenberry himself (in his novelization of The Motion Picture) seemed to be attempting to handwave some of TOS's more.... shall we say, extreme moments, by suggesting that what we thought was Kirk's five year mission was dramatized, and that the 'real' events may have often been a lot more mundane. I suspect his heart was in the right place, attempting to center Star Trek into a better sense of reality, but it does rather suggest that The Great Bird himself saw some aspects of TOS that he actively wished to retcon.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I've also heard the rumor that GR wanted to remake various TOS episodes for TNG, giving them a more "serious" treatment, but the reception to "The Naked Now" scuttled that idea.

 

[Smellmet]

This technicality always irks me. No one knows what spending 15 years exposed to the elements and god-knows-what on Ceti Alpha V would do to human skin. Maybe it changes pigment.

[/QUOTE]

Didn't look like a very sunny place did Ceti Alpha V.

 

[Tosk]

Didn't look like a very sunny place did Ceti Alpha V.

He got sandblasted white.

 

[TheAdmiralty]

Wasn't there something about at the time of TMP's production, TOS being an in-universe fictional account of Kirk's exploits? I'm sure I read that on this site at one point.

The novelisation of TMP presents us with a kind of 'Sherlock Homes' thing for TOS. The preface is supposedly written by Kirk saying that his previous exploits had been somewhat exaggerated so he's making sure that the book record of TMP is truthful to what actually happened. To be honest, the TMP novelisation is a bit mad like that!

That's really not a bad idea. A lot of things on TOS are incompatible with the more modern/80's Sci-Fi world depicted in the TOS films, so it's hard to imagine them existing in the same world.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This technicality always irks me. No one knows what spending 15 years exposed to the elements and god-knows-what on Ceti Alpha V would do to human skin. Maybe it changes pigment.

Judging by their outfits, exposure to the elements was low on their list of things they wanted to happen. .

 

[Cγrano Mudd]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Do you mean what episodes are explicitly in continuity because they were referenced in the movies?

Oh, what the hell. I can't sleep so I may as well attempt to answer...

-TMP features Klingons, so presumably that brings all the Klingon episodes of TOS into the movie continuity. That would be "Errand of Mercy," "Friday's Child," "The Trouble with Tribbles," "A Private Little War," "Elaan of Troyius," "Day of the Dove," and "The Savage Curtain." An Andorian is also seen, so that brings in "Journey To Babel," "The Gamesters of Triskelion" and "Whom Gods Destroy" as well. (I'm not going to count Decker, since it's never explicitly said that he's the son of the guy from "The Doomsday Machine.") So that's 10 episodes.

-TWOK references "Space Seed," of course. Kirk & co. are teaching at Starfleet Academy, so according to this script search, that adds in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" "Court Martial," "Shore Leave," "The Changeling," "The Apple," "Bread and Circuses," "Obsession," "Patterns of Force," "Whom Gods Destroy," (again) and "The Way To Eden". McCoy brings Kirk Romulan Ale as a birthday present and the Neutral Zone is mentioned, so we can incorporate the Romulan episodes "Balance of Terror," "The Deadly Years," and "The Enterprise Incident." David Marcus mentions Surak, so that further confirms "The Savage Curtain." Since Saavik expresses surprise that Spock lied, I suppose that would also bring in any episodes that tell us that Vulcans don't lie. According to the script search I just did, it looks like the earliest episode to do that was "The Menagerie." Spock's "Remember" to McCoy could perhaps be drawn from him telling Kirk to "Forget" at the end of "Requiem for Methuselah." That's 16 additional episodes, bringing the total to 26.

-TSFS again references "Journey To Babel" through the character of Sarek. Sarek mind melds with Kirk, so that brings in any TOS episodes featuring the mind meld ("Dagger of the Mind," "Return of the Archons," "A Taste of Armageddon," "Devil in the Dark," "The Changeling," "Mirror, Mirror," "By Any Other Name," "Spectre of the Gun," "The Paradise Syndrome," "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" "Requiem for Methuselah" again, and finally "Turnabout Intruder"). We see a Tribble in the bar that McCoy visits. We saw that Spock has the ability to place his consciousness or essence into a human being in "Return To Tomorrow." The regenerated Spock undergoes Pon Farr, so that brings in "Amok Time." The Enterprise self-destruct sequence is drawn from "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" (almost word-for-word, IIRC). That's 14 more episodes, bringing the current total to 40.

-TVH uses the slingshot time-travel method introduced in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" and reused in "Assignment: Earth." The movie again reuses Sarek and brings in Amanda for good measure. 2 more episodes = 42 total.

-TFF uses Klingons and Romulans again, and mentions Starfleet Academy. Sarek has a cameo in a flashback/dream sequence. I can't think of any references to TOS episodes not referenced before.

-TUC has Klingons, Romulans, Sarek, a mind meld, and Romulan Ale, but again, I can't really think of any brand-new TOS references.

Oh, wait. I just remembered that both Chapel and Rand appear in TMP and a few of the other movies. So that brings in their episodes. The new ones for Chapel would be "The Naked Time," "Operation -- Annihilate!" "A Private Little War," "The Immunity Syndrome," "And The Children Shall Lead," "Spock's Brain," "The Tholian Web," "For The World..." "Plato's Stepchildren," "Wink of an Eye," and "The Lights of Zetar." 11 more episodes = 53. For Rand, it's "Corbomite," "Enemy Within," "Man Trap," "Charlie X," "Miri," and "Conscience of the King." 6 new episodes = 59 episodes out of 79.

So there you go. According to the movies, 20 episodes of TOS never happened, but we still have Space Lincoln and space hippies, so it's all good.

Wow! Well done!

 

[ChristopherPike]

"Operation-Annihilate" sits uncomfortably to my mind, when in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier mentions having once lost a brother.

Easier not to confuse the audience with a finer point of continuity, when Spock fits more poetically. But I always wonder, if Sam is even crossing Kirk's mind, in the way a real family loss would always remain. From Shatner's perspective, maybe not.

 

[FormerLurker]

As with every iteration of Trek, the writers, producers and directors pick and choose which things to keep and which things to ignore. Khan's followers are Arayn youths in Wrath of Khan, they're not in "Space Seed". Khan himself lost his skin-darkening makeup and is noticeably whiter in Wrath than SS.

The events of TOS happened in Broad Strokes in the movies, and later productions.

This technicality always irks me. No one knows what spending 15 years exposed to the elements and god-knows-what on Ceti Alpha V would do to human skin. Maybe it changes pigment.

Didn't look like a very sunny place did Ceti Alpha V.

He got sandblasted white.

All good points, to which I can only add that with all the protective gear they had on, Khan and his people had very little exposure to anything that would darken their skin. Indeed, it's long been known that even dark-complected people can fade to a pale hue without exposure to sun, wind or other such things. In the film "The Gods Must Be Crazy" a black character describes being buried to the neck for two weeks, and being as pale as his white friend when they dug him out.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In the film "The Gods Must Be Crazy" a black character describes being buried to the neck for two weeks, and being as pale as his white friend when they dug him out.

Are you sure he wasn't exaggerating for effect, as story tellers are wont to do?