Approaching holidays...are we thinking the same thing?

[Warped9]

Forgive me if I'm not willing to let something I care about get pushed around.

What are you even talking about? You have no right to express your religion at work and force its symbols on others. That's such a weird sense of entitlement.

This is hypocrisy when business will use religious or festive symbolism to increase sales. If they can do it for commercial reasons then we should be able to do it for personal reasons.

Granted societies evolve. But there are things that some of us aren't yet ready and willing to let go.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Forgive me if I'm not willing to let something I care about get pushed around.

What are you even talking about? You have no right to express your religion at work and force its symbols on others. That's such a weird sense of entitlement.

This is hypocrisy when business will use religious or festive symbolism to increase sales. If they can do it for commercial reasons then we should be able to do it for personal reasons.

You not being allowed to shove your religion down other people's throat with its symbols is protecting other people's rights.
It has nothing to do with the company itself.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Bullshit. When said employer allowed said expressions for decades and then suddenly does not without clear reason then I and others are going to speak up. People put up with a lot merely by being too shy to speak up.

Find another job.

Interesting. And sad. What is freedom-to-speak for one person is apparently bellyaching to someone else. And so rather than hearing possible feedback from perhaps likeminded folks they might be intimidated by some who will try to just shut them up.

You seem to be missing the point that you have no freedom of speech at work. I'm not the only person to point that out.

Feel free to complain about it. Complaining here will accomplish nothing. Complaining at work might get you what you want--or get you fired. Who knows?

But don't expect a lot of sympathy here.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Are We Thinking The Same Thing?

No, we don't. Stop cramming your religion down people's throats and stop being such a crybaby you poor persecuted majority.

 

[cultcross]

Perhaps you missed it when someone else mentioned it, did your company have a corporate backed celebration of Eid, and if not, could you link to your thread of outrage?

 

[Count Zero]

What is the point of this thread, anyway? Last year, you complained about this, too, if I remember correctly, Warped9. People suggested you should take it up with your employer since it's your employer that does things in a way you disagree with. Now, it seems as if you have or are planning to - that wasn't actually quite clear in your lengthy OP. Good. Because we can't do anything about it on your behalf. It's your company's decision so you should complain to them.

I also find your blaming what you perceive as such a great injustice on immigrants, even indirectly, rather disconcerting. They aren't responsible for a decision the company or people you work for made, unless they specifically demanded it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't get it.

Are the Toronto Police "serving and protecting" by rounding up people who display Christmas lights on their houses or through their windows? Is anyone who buys a tree getting put on a watch-list of suspected Christians? What forms of personal expression are being suppressed here?

As for government recognition of Christmas in particular, if I lived in Toronto (which in my case is more than a theoretical possibility, so I really should say, were I ever actually to move to Toronto permanently), I'd be more concerned about whether the garbage collectors are on strike, about how much TTC fares are, and about whether there are enough social service workers on the government payroll, than whether the government publicly displays a Christmas tree.

My favorite Christmas hymn is Good King Wenceslas. Rather than be concerned with issues that derive strictly from your luxury (for, would your attention be focused on these sorts of issues if you were cold or didn't have enough to eat?), why don't you follow his example of legend, and instead simply, oh, help the less fortunate, by donating money or more importantly time and energy to charity? As I can personally attest to, Canadian winters can be rather hard, even as far south as Toronto. Or is directing one's energies to help those in need not what the lesson of Christmas really is?

I'd say, in all practical certainty, that my answer to the question in the thread title is "No".

 

[MacLeod]

Whilst I disagree with attempts to rename Christmas as Winter Holiday etc.. or in essense to remove referrences to Christ, so long as they are consistant and apply it to all religions removing any referrences to other religious figures.

 

[Warped9]

Perhaps there is a different view of this in the U.S. I can't remark on how it's perceived there. I can only remark on how many see it here in Canada.

In the U.S. you are expected to be American first and whatever second. You are expected to adopt American values and traditions. I actually think that is a good thing and there are times I wish more Canadians were more like our American cousins in this regard.

But it seems that no one here gets what I'm trying to say because most of what I'm getting is ridicule. It doesn't matter that for the longest time we could look forward to and enjoy brightening up our shared workplace for the holidays and yet (even as someone else mentioned upthread) as the dominant faith in Canada we're told it's not acceptable anymore. It's bullshit.

Strange, too, that many Canadians I've spoken to or read about seem to get what I'm saying.

Whatever, mods you might as well shut this thread down because what I thought was fair voicing of opinion is just bellyaching to everyone else.

 

[cultcross]

I don't get it.

Are the Toronto Police "serving and protecting" by rounding up people who display Christmas lights on their houses or through their windows?

"A 44 year old Toronto resident was arrested Friday and charged with two counts of unlawful decking of halls. A further count of conspiracy to commit glad tidings was dropped."

 

[{ Emilia }]

as the dominant faith in Canada we're told it's not acceptable anymore. It's bullshit.

Ah, so majorities are allowed to actually force their religion down the minority's throat. I get it now.

 

[Roger Wilco]

But it seems that no one here gets what I'm trying to say because most of what I'm getting is ridicule.

Yes, it's possible everybody else is slow-witted here. Or it might be you not making much sense. I guess one of the two options is more likely.

 

[Count Zero]

Perhaps there is a different view of this in the U.S. I can't remark on how it's perceived there. I can only remark on how many see it here in Canada.

In the U.S. you are expected to be American first and whatever second. You are expected to adopt American values and traditions. I actually think that is a good thing and there are times I wish more Canadians were more like our American cousins in this regard.

But it seems that no one here gets what I'm trying to say because most of what I'm getting is ridicule. It doesn't matter that for the longest time we could look forward to and enjoy brightening up our shared workplace for the holidays and yet (even as someone else mentioned upthread) as the dominant faith in Canada we're told it's not acceptable anymore. It's bullshit.

Strange, too, that many Canadians I've spoken to or read about seem to get what I'm saying.

The argument that the US is different and that's why people in this thread disagree doesn't hold much water because many of the people who commented so far aren't Americans.

Whatever, mods you might as well shut this thread down because what I thought was fair voicing of opinion is just bellyaching to everyone else.

So, if you don't get the responses you hoped for, it's ok to shut down discussion and prevent others from expressing their opinion? Kind of ironic, considering the freedom of speech angle you were going for earlier in the thread, don't you think?

 

[Warped9]

Perhaps there is a different view of this in the U.S. I can't remark on how it's perceived there. I can only remark on how many see it here in Canada.

In the U.S. you are expected to be American first and whatever second. You are expected to adopt American values and traditions. I actually think that is a good thing and there are times I wish more Canadians were more like our American cousins in this regard.

But it seems that no one here gets what I'm trying to say because most of what I'm getting is ridicule. It doesn't matter that for the longest time we could look forward to and enjoy brightening up our shared workplace for the holidays and yet (even as someone else mentioned upthread) as the dominant faith in Canada we're told it's not acceptable anymore. It's bullshit.

Strange, too, that many Canadians I've spoken to or read about seem to get what I'm saying.

The argument that the US is different and that's why people in this thread disagree doesn't hold much water because many of the people who commented so far aren't Americans.

Whatever, mods you might as well shut this thread down because what I thought was fair voicing of opinion is just bellyaching to everyone else.

So, if you don't get the responses you hoped for, it's ok to shut down discussion and prevent others from expressing their opinion? Kind of ironic, considering the freedom of speech angle you were going for earlier in the thread, don't you think?

I hoped for a discussion, not a shout down. I should have known better.

 

[JoeZhang]

I hoped for a discussion, not a shout down. I should have known better.

You had a discussion, it's just nobody agreed with you.

 

[cultcross]

So, if you don't get the responses you hoped for, it's ok to shut down discussion and prevent others from expressing their opinion? Kind of ironic, considering the freedom of speech angle you were going for earlier in the thread, don't you think?

Indeed.

 

[Warped9]

Don't worry, I won't be disturbing you anymore. Apparently my feelings on this are all wrong and everybody else is right.

All hail the corporate mindset so many are willing to acquiesce to.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I hoped for a discussion, not a shout down. I should have known better.

No, clearly you didn't want a discussion, you just wanted a pat on the back and an "attaboy".

 

[CorporalCaptain]

My remarks had nothing whatsoever to do with hailing the corporate mindset.

P.S. American here.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

The "corporate mindset" really has nothing to do with this, anyway. What's corporate about Christmas is shit like Black Friday sales, and Christmas items being for sale in fucking September.