Anyone else feel that Star Trek VI is still the best?

[T'Baio]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the reunion of Shatner and Christopher Plummer! Old Stratford stage buddies, together again, 40 years later! Guess there ain't a whole lot of Canadians around here. Almost for that alone, it's my favourite. Plummer rules.

I never saw the whole Spock/Valeris thing as rape, either. More like torture. A military act of brutality committed in the waning minutes to gain necessary information to save thousands. Spock is like Jack Bauer in this scene. It's definitely no worse than Picard saying to Troi; "Counselor, if you can tolerate more of these, violations, I need you on the bridge..." all casually like it's nothing in Nemesis.

The Undiscovered Country is my fave Trek film, borderline tie between it and The Wrath of Khan. I love the film, though. Also, no one's mentioned, I adore Cliff Eidelman's score and actually think it's the best of all the Trek movies. Possibly not a popular opinion. But that whole credit sequence leading up to the explosion...gorgeous. One of my favourite opening sequences ever.

Yeah, I said it.

 

[Kinnison]

T’Baio said:
Also, no one's mentioned, I adore Cliff Eidelman's score and actually think it's the best of all the Trek movies. Possibly not a popular opinion. But that whole credit sequence leading up to the explosion...gorgeous. One of my favourite opening sequences ever.

(shrug) I thought it was pretty derivative of John Williams's Star Wars score, the bit leading up to the Death Star's explosion.

Best movie? Absolutely not. Not even close.

Best Trek movie? No, but I'd put it in the Top 3, I guess. I really like TMP and Wrath of Khan better (and for completely different reasons). The Undiscovered Country did have a lot of amusing parallels in then-current international politics, it was hella nostalgic, and was a lot of fun. It wasn't exactly thought-provoking, though.

 

[Kegek]

I think Cliff Eidelmann's score is far more derivative of Gustav Holst's Mars: The Bringer of War and Dmitri Shostakovich's 10th Symphony.

I also consider it one of the best scores in the franchise. Probably the second after TMP. And yes, the slow, omnious, militaristic build up punctuated by an explosion is a great, abrupt transition.

 

[Kinnison]

Kegek said:
I think Cliff Eidelmann's score is far more derivative of Gustav Holst's Mars: The Bringer of War and Dmitri Shostakovich's 10th Symphony.

Well, it certainly sounds like you know what you're talking about! I'll defer to you superior expertise in this matter.

(P.S. John Williams is quite derivative himself, of course!)

I also consider it one of the best scores in the franchise. Probably the second after TMP. And yes, the slow, omnious, militaristic build up punctuated by an explosion is a great, abrupt transition.

I don't think it's nearly as good as TMP's score, but it was good, it's true.

 

[Furlong]

For me, It's in third place, with The Voyage Home as number 2 and The Wrath of Khan as number one.

What I liked about it appears to be why some people did'nt like it. I liked the militaristic overtones of it. It showed me that your organization can be primarily about exploratwon without being wimpy militarily.

 

[OptimusPete]

^ deffo agree about the militarism in this film. For me TUC and TWOK are the best Star Trek films followed by TSFS and FC, I can pretty much take or leave the others. Except TMP which is unbearably tedious.

 

[Valin]

I place this in the top three of Trek films (along with TMP and TWoK).

 

[Whale4ever]

The "mind-rape" is indeed a disturbing scene - directed with perfection and performed beautifully - but any debate about its' necessity is moot when considering the character conducting it.

At this point in his life and career, Spock would no doubt do the deed. The action enriches his persona; he is a Star Fleet officer - soldier - first, Vulcan second. His loyalties are written in stone at this juncture. At no time during this scene is he betraying his character: the fate of the galaxy' future may rest in his hands...he alone has the power to bust the conspiracy wide open.

Though unethical (in the Trekverse), his decision to go forward with the meld is based on revealed evidence of Valeris' involvement in the plot.

It is obvious, based on Meyer's direction and Nimoy's portrayal, that Spock most certainly did what had to be done.

Necessary AND logical (...where the end justifies the means, in this case, anyway).

The most pleasing aspect of the entire sequence, IMO, is that Spock performed it willingly; not under the direction or orders of a superior.

And TMP is still the best film... :-)

 

[Keith1701]

EnsignRicky said:
Had they never made 'The Wrath Of Kahn' 'The Voyage Home' or 'First Contact' I would agree completely.

I would have to go with 'First Contact', first then 'The Wrath of Khan' second and finally 'The Voyage Home' thrid :thumbsup:

 

[Sci]

Honestly, the only thing that really irks me in watching Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, mind meld violations aside, is that the Federation President and Starfleet brass discuss a top-secret plan to invade the Klingon Empire right in front of the Romulan Ambassador.

 

[ClayinCA]

Yeah, I always wondered about that. Maybe, with all the talk of "cleaning their chronometers", they were trying to convince Nanclus that it was some sort of Galactic Savings Time plan...?

 

[Plum]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the reunion of Shatner and Christopher Plummer! Old Stratford stage buddies, together again, 40 years later! Guess there ain't a whole lot of Canadians around here. Almost for that alone, it's my favourite. Plummer rules.

I never saw the whole Spock/Valeris thing as rape, either. More like torture. A military act of brutality committed in the waning minutes to gain necessary information to save thousands. Spock is like Jack Bauer in this scene. It's definitely no worse than Picard saying to Troi; "Counselor, if you can tolerate more of these, violations, I need you on the bridge..." all casually like it's nothing in Nemesis.

The Undiscovered Country is my fave Trek film, borderline tie between it and The Wrath of Khan. I love the film, though. Also, no one's mentioned, I adore Cliff Eidelman's score and actually think it's the best of all the Trek movies. Possibly not a popular opinion. But that whole credit sequence leading up to the explosion...gorgeous. One of my favourite opening sequences ever.

Yeah, I said it.

I... feel I must concur with this entire post.

 

[Ah Forgive!]

It's a highly entertaining movie, and everyone is very much in character, but its story has one massive flaw: it's a murder mystery with one suspect who is the only new character introduced in the film.

If they'd kept Kim Cattral's character's name Savvik as they originally intended, the big reveal would have been as shocking as the destruction of the Enterprise.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Upon first seeing it in the theater, I found STVI tedious and enjoyed it less than STV overall. Over the years, I like VI better.
My main problem with it is that suddenly phasers draw blood, and if it's Klingon, it is industrial quantities of pepto bismol. Utterly stupid.

McCoy: "What is it with you, anyway?"

 

[Data Holmes]

Upon first seeing it in the theater, I found STVI tedious and enjoyed it less than STV overall. Over the years, I like VI better.

I really don't think it's fair to compare them. They were going for different feels.

My main problem with it is that suddenly phasers draw blood, and if it's Klingon, it is industrial quantities of pepto bismol. Utterly stupid.

Well, science has always given in to plot... as to the latter, thank the MPAA and their asinine rating system.

McCoy: "What is it with you, anyway?"

Indeed, a great part. that whole segment had a underscoring of levity that I found to be very "true" in the concept of in film reality.

Kirk: "I can't believe I kissed you."

Fake Kirk: "Must have been your life long ambition."

 

[Peach Wookiee]

That sounds like a Denny Krane line now...

 

[Nebusj]

Well, science has always given in to plot... as to the latter, thank the MPAA and their asinine rating system.

I don't see how ``science'' enters into it at all. It was already established back in the Original Series that you could set phasers to cut things rather than stun or disintegrate them, and part of the assassination plot is that the victims need to not die instantly: otherwise there's no getting Star Fleet officers over to the Klingon ship where they can be captured and the international tension ratcheted up.

Given that folks seem to accept the idea of green blood for Vulcans, the idea of purple blood for Klingons hardly seems like much of a stretch. And, yes, it does mean you can show more blood doing its spherical harmonics without making the audience nauseous. It's not asinine to consider this. (It also helps the theme of there being apparently irreconcilable differences between Klingons and Humans.)

 

[IrritatingGameOfChess]

It's my second favorite after "Khan." Meyer really seemed to have an understanding of Trek, in my opinion, and I like his allusions to sailing vessels throughout both films.

A lot of people complain about the mind rape scene, and, while it was tough to watch, the point was that Spock had a difficult decision to make, and he did it. Difficult decisions make good drama.

...And the space battle at the end was great!

Cool movie!