Anyway. I was not disturbed by LaForge's sexual harassment of Leah Brahms.
Anyone else disturbed by La Forges sexual harrasment of Leah Brahms?
- Thread starter Crazyewok
- Start date
okay, it wasn't Sexual Harassment per se - it was just plain Stalking. Still the whole ending scene line of:
^^^
I as real load of crap. Geordi was offering her 'frendship' yes, but he was clearly going for the "friends with benefits' kind, and it was stalkerish and creepy as he tried to feign ignorance (IE it was a coincidence) that he somehow knew her favorite things:
In this episode, Leah Brahms would have every right to get Troi to declare Geordi physiologically unbalanced when it came to his behavior toward her during the entire course of the episode. In the end, it came across that the only thing Geordi was depressed about was that he'd have to return to his Holoporn.
How exactly did Geordi stalk Leah?
^ He failed to delete the hologram when appropriate.
And after that, he allowed himself to develop a crush on said hologram, then got all pissy when the real Leah didn't act the same.
And after that, he allowed himself to develop a crush on said hologram, then got all pissy when the real Leah didn't act the same.
I'd also like to understand this. Like I already said, just because he was painful and socially inept doesn't mean he violated her or broke a law. There's a difference.
If being painful and socially awkward is harassment or stalking, my guess is you'd need to take action against about 70% of the world's population at some point.
Shitty behavior...but neither stalking nor harassment.
That's what I'm seeing. But, I asked a question, and I'm open to the answer.
Brahms specifically states that she felt "violated" when she confronted him on the holodeck. Obviously not his intentions, but he should have at least acknowledged this instead of shouting her down.
It depends how you define "stalking", obviously in the legal sense there will be different interpretations in different countries. Generally when people talk about stalking though, they're not referring to it as a specifc legal definition, just a general catch-all term for creepy behaviour.
If @Noname Given is just talking about general creepy behavior, then that's not stalking; it's just general creepy behavior.
Geordi's behavior is consistent with sexual harassment in the workplace, plain and simple.
Imagine.....A guy invites a new female co worker to his apartment for dinner under the guise of a professional meeting, with dimmed lighting, music, casual clothing, etc....... well, she would have full grounds to report him and he may lose his job over it.
Then there's the holodeck, which is equivalent to mounting a webcam in her office and then playing it on your home computer. So the co-worker finds this out; well, again the guy would likely be fired and maybe subject to a lawsuit.
It was also awful to have to watch Leah apologize to Geordi at the end of the show. "I'm sorry I overreacted when I saw your holo-sex-deck version of me say that when you're touching the Enterprise, you're touching me." This show comes off so differently as I re-watch it at age 39! If you had a daughter, would you want her to experience what Leah experienced in the workplace? Also, where the hell was Troi in this episode? Leah should have reported Geordi to her.
Imagine.....A guy invites a new female co worker to his apartment for dinner under the guise of a professional meeting, with dimmed lighting, music, casual clothing, etc....... well, she would have full grounds to report him and he may lose his job over it.
Then there's the holodeck, which is equivalent to mounting a webcam in her office and then playing it on your home computer. So the co-worker finds this out; well, again the guy would likely be fired and maybe subject to a lawsuit.
It was also awful to have to watch Leah apologize to Geordi at the end of the show. "I'm sorry I overreacted when I saw your holo-sex-deck version of me say that when you're touching the Enterprise, you're touching me." This show comes off so differently as I re-watch it at age 39! If you had a daughter, would you want her to experience what Leah experienced in the workplace? Also, where the hell was Troi in this episode? Leah should have reported Geordi to her.
Not to mention that Geordi is the head of a whole department on the Federation flagship, so surely he'd be expected to uphold/be judged by even higher standards?
The whole "only describing women as mothers/daughters/wives" argument aside, this is completely the point. As has already been pointed out...
I'm not sure that constitutes sexual harrassment, I maintain that it was misplaced attempt at romance at worst. Should have stuck to Ten Forward.
Have to disagree with you on this point, the simuation was based on offical records made avialable for research and problem-solving. Which is exactly how Geordi used it, even if he got a little more out of the experience as well.
"LEAH: I called up a replay of the programme file. I was all ready to compliment you again, Commander, for constructing a programme which contained the prototype engine so that you would always have a baseline reference for your modifications..."
This was in-fact Geordi's reason for creating the program.
Really? From what I can tell she was apologising for this:
Which - taking into consideration the fact that a) Geordi didn't tell the computer to create Holo-Brahms, he was fine chatting with the volce-simuation, b) the dialogue was generating by the computer due to incomplete information, c) there is no evidence that he even visited the Drafting Room simuation after the "Booby Trap" incident, never mind created additional programs for sexual purposes - doesn't seem unreasonable to me?
Leah's apology has been mentioned a few times so I'm wondering, I can't remember if at the end of Galaxy's Child Geordi ever apologised for his lying/truth ommision, romantic "professional" dinner, and defensive outburst?
I'd consider it stalking. he's created and is interacting developing feelings for a real person; and in creating that person effectively doxxing her work and personal details - and in effect becoming somewhat obsessive when the real person shows up. At the veery least given the way it went down it IMO is a form of 24th century cyber-stalking.
If Geordi had accessed private information or hacked into something, then I'd agree. But he didn't.
Early on in "Booby Trap," the computer denied Geordi access to Leah's personal logs, when he asked how much of the starship Leah had really designed "off the record," which itself wasn't even personal information, and he let that restriction stand. There was no breach of privacy as the computer drew the line. In fact, everything that occurred on the holodeck was authorized by the computer, which was explicitly acting to protect Leah's privacy. So, I'd have to say it's definitely not a 24th-century crime of any kind what Geordi did on the holodeck.
As for doxxing, no. He broadcast nothing.
I agree. Geordi is no creep. "Galaxy's Child" showed how people can fall in love with a fantasy that has no basis in reality. Once Brahms discovered the program, and Geordi came to terms with the real Leah, they became friends.
He also said they could get to know each other better. Leah may not have expected a 'romantic' setting, but someone losing their job over it?
It's not equivalent to that at all.
He does not say the words, "I'm sorry". He does admit to her that he should have told her everything right at the start.
Perhaps, but technically, neither was Data. He was somehow affected by the virus as well. Don't ask me to explain that, because he is an android, but he was. Naked Now is just one of those episodes, like Naked Time, and Genesis, where everyone gets a pass. If we were to hold everyone accountable in those episodes, Neanderthal-Riker should have been charged with murder for snapping a fellow crewman's neck, and Picard should have been charged with mass murder at Wolf 359.
I'm surprised to see so much hate for 2 episode's that make my top 20 list of the best TNG episode's.
In the first episode we don't even see Leah Brahms because holograms aren't people. All we see is a fictional version of what the computer felt the real version is like. Geordi basically develops a crush on someone that isn't real. It would be like getting a crush on Maryln Monroe because of how Michele Williams played the character in that one movies.
Geordi also never has sex with the hologram but even if he did, it still wouldn't be a big deal because as mentioned before,Holograms are not people. They have the same value as porn magazine. Are we supose to judge people because of their sexual fantasies that they sometimes act out through masturbation in private?
As for"Galaxy's Child" we sort of see what happens when reality impacts fantasy. Geordi oviously thought the real Brahms might like him because the hologram did but that isn't creepy it's just naive. What you have is to people with a personality flaw that makes them but heads against each other.
She acts like a jerk the moment she arrives and he acts like a nerd that doesn't understand women and most of the episode in the beginning they seem to fight over the engines and other tech stuff. Geordi tries to impress her by knowing things she might like and she feels somewhat threatened by the fact that their is a stigma that designers don't know as much as engineer's who are out their on the frontline of exploration and she feels as protective about her work as Geordi is.
We can argue that Geordi went to far in the diner scene but if you notice that this is basically the moment when he stops wooing her or whatever word you want to use. He sort of complains to Guinan about her but she counters with the "Different Visor" stuff which I thought worked great.
Afterwards you see both of them treat each other in a more proffesional way. He isn't trying to impress her like a lovesick nerd and she isn't acting like a jerk. It would have all been fine if it wasn't for a misunderstanding that isn't anyone's fault. She feels anger because she proably thinks Geordi just saw her as a sexual object and he yelled because she wouldn't let him explain his side. To me the only issue is why the program still exist but whatever reason I doubt it was because Geordi was going in their and having sex with the hologram because if he did it kind of undermines the ending of "Booby Trap."
I know the other issue is whether or not Geordi should have told her about the program. To me that seems more like a judgment call, because if you talk about it you can risk offending her or embarassing her for no reason. Sometimes the truth is not the best way to go and somethings should remain private. As for her apologizing I think he also apologized as well but I am a little fuzzy about that. I need to go back and watch it to be sure.
Jason
In the first episode we don't even see Leah Brahms because holograms aren't people. All we see is a fictional version of what the computer felt the real version is like. Geordi basically develops a crush on someone that isn't real. It would be like getting a crush on Maryln Monroe because of how Michele Williams played the character in that one movies.
Geordi also never has sex with the hologram but even if he did, it still wouldn't be a big deal because as mentioned before,Holograms are not people. They have the same value as porn magazine. Are we supose to judge people because of their sexual fantasies that they sometimes act out through masturbation in private?
As for"Galaxy's Child" we sort of see what happens when reality impacts fantasy. Geordi oviously thought the real Brahms might like him because the hologram did but that isn't creepy it's just naive. What you have is to people with a personality flaw that makes them but heads against each other.
She acts like a jerk the moment she arrives and he acts like a nerd that doesn't understand women and most of the episode in the beginning they seem to fight over the engines and other tech stuff. Geordi tries to impress her by knowing things she might like and she feels somewhat threatened by the fact that their is a stigma that designers don't know as much as engineer's who are out their on the frontline of exploration and she feels as protective about her work as Geordi is.
We can argue that Geordi went to far in the diner scene but if you notice that this is basically the moment when he stops wooing her or whatever word you want to use. He sort of complains to Guinan about her but she counters with the "Different Visor" stuff which I thought worked great.
Afterwards you see both of them treat each other in a more proffesional way. He isn't trying to impress her like a lovesick nerd and she isn't acting like a jerk. It would have all been fine if it wasn't for a misunderstanding that isn't anyone's fault. She feels anger because she proably thinks Geordi just saw her as a sexual object and he yelled because she wouldn't let him explain his side. To me the only issue is why the program still exist but whatever reason I doubt it was because Geordi was going in their and having sex with the hologram because if he did it kind of undermines the ending of "Booby Trap."
I know the other issue is whether or not Geordi should have told her about the program. To me that seems more like a judgment call, because if you talk about it you can risk offending her or embarassing her for no reason. Sometimes the truth is not the best way to go and somethings should remain private. As for her apologizing I think he also apologized as well but I am a little fuzzy about that. I need to go back and watch it to be sure.
Jason
Yes there is porn, but Pornstars consent to being objectified in that way, professionals you've never met generally don't.
Throughout this thread there's been a consensus that Geordi didn't use HoloBrahms for his own privte fantasies, but there's still some debate as to what the contemporary equivalent would be, and I guess maybe it's sex dolls similar to those based on Pornstars? They even have molds taken of their genitals to enhance the likeness, and the fantasy, but they're all doing so willingly, just like those who are the basis for Quark's Vulcan Love Slave programs.
Everyone has a right to an imaginiation, but if you bring in a physical avatar of a specific person without their knowledge or consent into your fantasies, that's where it gets creepy and wrong.