Anyone else annoyed at the dumbed down writing in ENT?

[Triskelion]

Being from Kentucky, Trip's southern character never rang false with me. I'll pay more attention next time around to be sure, but he never struck me as comic relief. A bit exaggerated, perhaps, but not offensive.

The South is just so often misunderstood by mainstream culture. Hearing how the producers wanted him to be smart but not book smart, I can see it. I know people like that. They may talk slower and be nicer but they're nobody's fool. Also, I liked how he played the harmonica.

 

[Captain X]

The problem is, in order to be an engineer, you really do have to be "book smart". This is why I can never buy that Trip never went to college.

 

[KayArr]

I just ignore that kind of stuff and enjoy the show. But I've quit other shows where something that small irked me, so I feel your pain!

 

[Lady Conqueror]

I have to say I wasn't annoyed mostly because I didn't think the writing was dumbed down. And I never felt that Trip wasn't smart either.

 

[commodore64]

You can be book smart about engineering, but not as competent in spelling, writing, history, art and some other stuff. Most of the Silicon Valley big wigs -- Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc. -- were college drop outs, but obviously were smart guys who played around a lot with computers and read a lot of computer manuals.

 

[Captain X]

Engineering is not something you can be a college drop out for anymore. If anything, Trip actually should've had a PhD to be chief engineer of an experimental ship.

 

[Trekwatcher]

I am now rewatching DS9 from the begining, having just finished rewatching ENT all the way through. Flame me if you want to, but to me the writing in DS9 S1 is so weak compared to what we see in ENT S1 it is not even funny. Dax, Bashir, and Kira are so poorly written (two dimensional, unpleasant, tiresome) and these problems crop up in such a consistent manner my jaw just drops. Bashir and Dax suffer from this the most.

For all the criticism of ENT's writing, some of which is justified, I think they had a much stronger start than did DS9.

 

[commodore64]

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc. were college drop outs (as per my above post). They engineered computers. I worked with college drop outs in NASA. My husband, an engineer, is a college drop out although he has admittedly nearly 300 college hours. So, yeah. They can be today.

I wouldn't have believed Trip had a PhD in Engineering. Unlike Henry Archer, Trip didn't seem like a scientist. I would believe Trip he had an engineering degree, but he doesn't. That doesn't make him seem not smart, to me. Just like the Southern accent doesn't make him a dummy, his easy going nature doesn't make him a dummy and him being an incredible tinkerer doesn't make him a dummy.

 

[Captain X]

Computers are not warp engines and having an understanding of how electronics works and lucking out in life does not make you an engineer. Even now, you cannot get hired as an engineer unless you have a degree - it's hard enough to get hired when you actually have one.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't recall the exact quote or episode that established Trip didn't go to College. What was said?

 

[kalysto]

^ I don't remember the exact quote, but wasn't it mentioned in TATV? If memory serves, it was also in the book as well? It's been a while since I have read TGTMD though.

 

[commodore64]

Computers are not warp engines and having an understanding of how electronics works and lucking out in life does not make you an engineer. Even now, you cannot get hired as an engineer unless you have a degree - it's hard enough to get hired when you actually have one.

They didn't luck out - they had been working on computers for years, since they were young. It was their passion. Kinda like Trip. Again, my husband doesn't have a degree and engineer is on his business card.

People value experience more than having a degree -- like Archer did when he "hired" Trip as head engineer.

 

[pookha]

from the very start one couldnt be a nasa astrounaut without a degree.
several of the mission pilots who are military have advanced degrees.
to think they would let a chief engineer of the flag ship of the fleet have that position with a degree is just silly.
of course it is so mild in degree of silliness compared with the multi sins of tatv.
from the character assination of riker, to the many numerous contradictions with pegasus, the character assination of archer . the contradictions with tng itself.

it is all pretty comical

 

[Captain X]

They didn't luck out - they had been working on computers for years, since they were young. It was their passion.

I know people who could build a computer with their eyes closed and they aren't even out of high school yet, but unless they catch a break, they still need to make it official by going to an accredited university.

Kinda like Trip. Again, my husband doesn't have a degree and engineer is on his business card.

I'm skeptical. First off, when I was a janitor, they liked to call us "maintenance engineers". Second off, if he did, I'm betting it was before the '80s or '90s when they started getting stricter about this and thus he was grandfathered in.

People value experience more than having a degree -- like Archer did when he "hired" Trip as head engineer.

Except that most every reputable company is going to want to hire someone with the diploma and the silver ring so they know for sure that the person they hire has the knowledge they need to do their job. Also, while Archer may have "hired" Trip as the Chief Engineer of Enterprise, Trip was already a Starfleet officer. All US military service branches require that their officers hold a 4 year degree. While pilots could have any degree, at least in the Air Force, your job is dependant on your degree - engineers must have an engineering degree. And before anyoe whines about Starfleet supposedly not being a military organization, as pookha pointed out, all astronauts must have degrees as well - this is what kept Chuck Yeager from being an astronaut back when NASA first started. And even if you wanted to argue experience somehow, it's frankly pretty stupid to say that Trip learned warp physics or all the things he knows about starships by working on a fishing boat. Even though they've no doubt moved past the diesel engines that power modern fishing boats, I highly doubt that they're equipped with anything remotely similar to a warp or an impulse engine.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Enterprise seems pretty dumbed down for a star trek series. Voyager was also dumbed down but they hid it better. It's sort of like hicks in space. dumbing it down in general would be acceptable but its weird (for example) that enterprises main engineer would struggle with math problems like train leaves at x time going y speed z distance away from another train leaving at b time...(1x16 shuttlepod one).

You do remember that he and Reed had less than two day's worth of oxygen on hand and facing death?! I hardly think Trip was at his mental peak at that point.

People value experience more than having a degree

Not anymore, they don't.

Well, the average person does. Employers not so much, since nowadays the world is lawsuit happy and said employee having a degree is most likely a far safer insurance policy than one that doesn't.

Not that I believe everything requires a degree, though, but that's just the way the wold works these days.

(I'm not getting into the "Is Trip Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?" argument again.)

 

[Hoshi's sis]

I would think the first starship out there would have the 'best and the brightest'. The idea that the chief engineer of this vessel, who doesn't have a degree and who gained his knowledge from tinkering on fishing boats, is beyond silly and ludicrous. (Just another stupid inconsistancy from a ridiculous episode)

I would think Archer would have had to pick his crew from a list with suitable candates that had the experience and knowledge to do the job. I hardly doubt he would have been able to get away with giving the job to Trip because he was his 'best friend' who had a talent for 'tinkering', over more experienced and knowelegdable candates

 

[KayArr]

^ I don't remember the exact quote, but wasn't it mentioned in TATV? If memory serves, it was also in the book as well? It's been a while since I have read TGTMD though.

Ah--so it's actually not true!

Trip did go to the academy--at the same time as Archer according to one first season episode. Don't they have engineering training there?

 

[bluedana]

I don't recall anything saying that they went to Academy at the same time, but they were both working on the Warp 2 project in First Flight. That's when Archer met Trip, and so they would have known each other - and been working together - for 8 years or so before Archer actually picked Trip to be his First Officer/Chief Engineer. By that time, Trip would have been the resident expert on and probably a main developer of the first Warp 5 ship.

As for education (although I typically ignore everything expressed in TATV), isn't it possible that Trip received his engineering training through Starfleet, and so did not go to a private four year college? I mean, the warp 2 engine may have been a specialized area being worked on only by Starfleet, so maybe they provided his education.

 

[commodore64]

AnnaY: Not anymore, they don't. [Value experience over a degree]

You're a little bit younger, so I'll prevent you from the shock I had when I graduated from college (and wasn't sure what I wanted to do with a double major in creative writing and history).

As someone who's 37 and helps hire people -- experience is always the winner. Notice how it's in job descriptions - degrees are after thoughts. In some places, you have to even demonstrate you can do the work. For example, we give tests to people interviewing to ensure they can edit and use the graphics packages they say they can. It's why it sucks when you graduate from college -- you lack experience, but have a degree. As a degree-wielding person, you pretty much start at an entry level job and work yourself up (unless you got said experience in a job while you were getting your degree). Experience is always the winner.

Well, the average person does. Employers not so much, since nowadays the world is lawsuit happy and said employee having a degree is most likely a far safer insurance policy than one that doesn't.

Not true. In these lawsuit happy days, employers just need to ensure you've done what you said you've done -- they double check with previous employers and double check to see if you have a degree if you say you have one. If you say you have certifications, they check that, too.

Not that I believe everything requires a degree, though, but that's just the way the wold works these days.

Don't let them fool ya. I encourage you to get one, but when you do, it's about experience. No one has asked me what degree I got since I was 22.

Captain X: I know people who could build a computer with their eyes closed and they aren't even out of high school yet, but unless they catch a break, they still need to make it official by going to an accredited university.

This is very sweet, and I'm not being condescending. I remember thinking this way when I was younger.

As an older person, it's all about catching a break even if you have a degree. It's about who you know and what you can do. I betcha everyone on this board is where they are now because they "caught a break."

I sure did! I wanted to write the great American play as a bartender with my degree. After some tough conversations with the folks who helped pay for said degree, I figured I should probably enter the workforce. My boyfriend at the time had a father who worked for NASA; they needed a junior editor. I caught a break.

So to wrap things up:
* Have experience; having a degree helps, but may not be essential - chances are if you have experience, they'll overlook needing a degree
* Network, so you can meet people who can give you a break
* Be smart
* Be nice - personality really does help

For those young-uns in the crowd who are likely to disagree because I'm Commodore64, I encourage you to chat with others who have jobs and are old. I promise what I say is true.

Trip - bringing it all home - had experience and demonstrated it, had networked with a captain who gave him a break, was smart and was nice.

 

[Hoshi's sis]

As an 'oldie' who has both experience and a degree, I can honestly say you are way off the mark - experience helps, but qualifications are what is required to get you into the job.

Trip would have needed the qualifications and knowledge to get him into the Warp 5 project in the first place. Once their he gained the experience and contacts, to get him the chief engineers job on Enterprise.