Anybody else pickup the TNG Blu-ray Movie Pack?

[Peach Wookiee]

Well, that's a good thing. ^^

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Re: Enterprise on Blu-ray

No, the Enterprise effects were not rendered at 480i. They were done at full HD resolution

Mr. Laser Beam and hamudm you are both wrong.

I found the online URL and posted it in the http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=92792Star Trek: Enterprise seasons Blu-ray spec. features wishlist thread to continue that discussion.

 

[Falcor5]

FYI, the TNG Movies box set was the second-best selling Blu-Ray of the week, with TOS Season 2 the fifth best-selling.

TNG beat out both major new releases: Observe & Report and Ghosts of Girlfriends Past.

Wow thats pretty cool!

 

[wekkuli]

Re: Enterprise on Blu-ray

I know this'll make me sound unsophisticated but...

Blu-Ray doesn't impress me. Won't be buying these...ever

To me, it's great to see all the smallest details of the production.

However, the ships and some sets can look more like "toys" now, but I'm ok with it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

by that I mean a recut of Nemesis with some of the dramatic scenes put back in.

Stuart Baird has said he wouldn't want that to happen.

 

[STR]

Well...and please note I really, really prefer to be diplomatic rather than blunt...Stuart Baird is an idiot.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Let's not forget John Logan. It's true Stuart Baird's direction left a lot to be desired, but more than anything what killed Nemesis for me was Logan's godawful script. Baird badly directed a script that was already bad to begin with.

 

[Harvey]

It's true that Logan's script has a lot of problems, most of which were apparent to me upon reading it. But Baird's direction definitely made a bad script worse. That's probably the difference between Nemesis and Insurrection.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Trekweb review

A review by Trekweb:
http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=4ad8b0bee4e72&topBrowse=all

It mentions:

At the head of each of the first four discs are two trailers. The first is for J.J. Abrams' STAR TREK

 

[Harvey]

Re: Trekweb review

The same trailers for Abrams' movie were in front of all six Blu-Rays of the movies with Kirk and co. No surprise there. Am I missing something?

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Highdef digest reviews Generations:

'Generations' isn't the worst of the 'Trek' movies. That honor still goes to 'Star Trek V'.

The picture is detailed enough to expose the texture and seams in the heavy pancake makeup on the actors. (Brent Spiner's robot makeup really doesn't hold up to scrutiny.)
The rest of the movie has some heavy filtering that causes mushy details and unnatural frozen grain patterns. Edge enhancement also looks to have been dialed up a few notches. Edge halos are much more overt in all the Veridian 3 scenes.

SOUND:

The mix is also swamped in bloated, overcooked bass, which frankly grows fatiguing after a while.
....the sound designers for many action and sci-fi pictures felt the need to amp up surround activity and bass to really show off the format. For better or worse, 'Generations' has extensive use of attention-grabbing split-surround effects, as if to declare, "Hey, there's a sound effect in the right rear channel!

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2749/startrekgenerations.html

 

[Grant]

Those quotes are totally out of context.

The quote about the audio is ENTIRELY referring to the ORIGINAL 1994 mix and has nothing to do with any tampering/changes made for the Blu-ray.

In other words in the early days of 5.1 sound, movie mixers 'showed off' with their new toy/technology.

So in the audio portion the Blu-ray if exactly faithful to the 1994 mix.

The video portion gets 3.5 stars and most of the movie looks really good according to the review, but at the end it looks like they applied some DNR to the scenes with Shatner (wanting to hide his age in those bright outdoor scenes perhaps?)

So in one of the quotes they are saying they faithfully followed the original (and folks might think it was something done wrong at the Blu-ray level) and the other is an out of context portion of the video review that implies the picture is not as good as it is.



Very few movies (especially from 1994) have a perfect transfer from start of movie to finish.
Click on the link and read the entire review.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Those quotes are totally out of context.

The quote about the audio is ENTIRELY referring to the ORIGINAL 1994 mix and has nothing to do with any tampering/changes made for the Blu-ray.
So in the audio portion the Blu-ray if exactly faithful to the 1994 mix.

Let's talk about the sound mix of Generations. Grant I did misquote by not including the entire paragraph and that may have led to some confusion.

'Star Trek: Generations' was released to theaters in the early days of Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. It was also one of the first titles released on Laserdisc with that soundtrack configuration. Around that time, the sound designers for many action and sci-fi pictures felt the need to amp up surround activity and bass to really show off the format. For better or worse, 'Generations' has extensive use of attention-grabbing split-surround effects, as if to declare, "Hey, there's a sound effect in the right rear channel! And now it's over here in the left. Oh, and now it's back in the right again!" It's gimmicky, but sometimes a lot of fun. The mix is also swamped in bloated, overcooked bass, which frankly grows fatiguing after a while.
The original crew 'Trek' movies were remixed into 7.1 configuration for Blu-ray, but the 'Next Gen' movies remain in their original 5.1 format. I have no argument with that. The lossless Dolby TrueHD 5.1 soundtrack has clear dialogue and crisp, loud (very loud) sound effects. Dennis McCarthy's score is broad and sweeping. Fidelity is perfectly fine overall, though I could wish for better separation of individual sounds. I recall from past screenings (including theatrically) the way that specific sound effects, like the rattling of a loose light fixture as Kirk goes to fix the photon torpedo, or the strange ticking noise during the saucer crash, stood out from the rest of the soundtrack. But here everything sort of blurs together. The crash itself is also duller than expected.

from the above HighDef digest link.

This is what I have a problem with:

the 'Next Gen' movies remain in their original 5.1 format

5.1 channels instead of 7.1 channels but would that be the initial Laserdisc mix or the 1998 DVD 5.1 remix that carried over to the DVD SCE & Blu-ray?

I was referring in an earlier post
to this other review that compares Generations mix to the other TNG film mixes

Later films - Insurrection, Nemesis - offer more adventurous soundscapes as far as surrounds are concerned (Generations, in particular, is pretty darned front-and-center),

and how this seems to be a debatable point comparing surround sound mixing styles from 1994 and films from 1996-2002.


From DVDTown's review of the original DVD release of Generations in 1998:

The sound is nothing short of awesome. The Dolby Digital soundtrack on the DVD is slightly more discreet and directional than its laser counterpart, due to an apparent reduction in bass. The original Generations LD--one of my favorite demonstration discs--always suffered from one drawback, and that was that the intense subwoofer activity (especially during the crash-landing sequence) always seemed to drown out the dynamic and directional sound. Perhaps it is my imagination, but it seems that Paramount´s DVD remaster has a somewhat "softened" quality to the low-frequency sound, allowing for clearer reception of the surround sound.

Jeff Kleist of The Digital Bits mentions in his review of Star Trek: The Next Generation Motion Picture Collection on Blu-ray

Star Trek: Generations' DTS laserdisc soundtrack was an early favorite among home theater enthusiasts, because of its dynamic sound design. That should carry over here: The saucer crash, Borg booms and Nemesis battles bristle with split and panning rear channels. Combined with the fantastic scores all of these films carry, this is avery, very good surround sound experience.

Bill Hunt mentions in his 2004 review of
Star Trek: Generations SCE DVD

The disc includes both Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 audio options. The DTS is outstanding and completely immersive, with smooth and dramatic panning, subtle and atmospheric ambiance and good low frequency reinforcement. Just listen to the scene where the Enterprise-B struggles to break free of the Nexus, or the later saucer crash sequence, and you'll be thrilled with this surround sound. The Dolby Digital track is also excellent if you prefer it. The sound field isn't as smooth - both ambient effects and panning are a little more directional - and the mix is a little more punchy on the low end. Still, it's still very good surround.

So by remixing Star Trek: Generations to 5.1 surround sound for the 1998 DVD & all subsequent home theater video releases they made it a heavily center mix instead of a spread out surround mix that WAS what the original mix and intentions of the director David Carson and the sound re-recording mixer Mark Smith had.

 

[Grant]

^^^

Thanks for making that very simple.

By the way, Digitalbits gives the Generations Blu-ray audio rating an 18.5 out of 20-----for a 15 year old movie.

So is that what are you trying to say?----that the Generations Blu-ray audio is excellent---which is what Digitalbits review says.


Here is the FULL Digitalbits quote about the Generations Blu-ray audio............

no one should have any issue with the 5.1 Dolby TrueHD tracks present on each disc here. There's a consistency that just isn't heard in most of the previous movies on Blu-ray, thanks to these newer films having been mixed in 5.1 from the start. Star Trek: Generations' DTS laserdisc soundtrack was an early favorite among home theater enthusiasts, because of its dynamic sound design. That should carry over here: The saucer crash, Borg booms and battles bristle with split and panning rear channels. Combined with the fantastic scores all of these films carry, this is avery, very good surround sound experience.

Any reason you omitted the first part of the paragraph?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Re: Trekweb review

The same trailers for Abrams' movie were in front of all six Blu-Rays of the movies with Kirk and co. No surprise there. Am I missing something?

Actually, the trailers in the first six films were the first trailer. The TNG films have the third and final trailer.

All of these will no doubt be on the Star Trek 09 DVD & Blu-Ray next month anyway.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

So is that what you're trying to say?----that the Generations Blu-ray audio is excellent

No we should discuss the mix itself not the technical sound quality.
Sound is very subjective. It's not good or bad unless there is a technical problem.
My post was not simple as this debatable topic doesn't even have a consensus among reviewers of the previous DVDs which I gave some examples to show.

Surround sound for both cinema and the home theater (DVD/Blu-ray) has gotten more what the film industry calls "aggressive" meaning that the rear speakers are used more.
In 1994 a feature film was more 'front-heavy' [Left,Center,Right] in the 5.1 mix.
dvdfile.com's review of the Blu-ray TNG movie pack

Later films - Insurrection, Nemesis - offer more adventurous soundscapes as far as surrounds are concerned (Generations, in particular, is pretty darned front-and-center),

really goes against what all these other reviewers are saying about the DVDs and that's where I wonder if when the 5.1 mix is the same mix from the DVDs...

 

[Grant]

So wait let me get this straight.........

In this thread (about the Blu-ray set) we should be talking about the mix itself NOT about the the Blu-ray audio quality?

Wow, talk about a convoluted agenda.

First you post all these misleading quotes about what folks are likely to think is the blu-ray quality and when it's pointed out the the reviews (especially on audio qualtiy have been pretty darn good) we are now told we should be discussing the original mix.

You seem to be suggesting that they altered the original theatrical audio mix to pump it up for home video----

But that is NOT what the review in HIdefdigest said.
He said that theatrically Generations was one of the first movies to have Dolby Digital 5.1 IN THE THEATER.

All movies are tweked a little bit in the trasition from movie print to DVD or Blu-ray.

So now you want to bash the Blu-rays for not being exactly the same as the original theatrical experience?

Well Trek 1-6 didn't have any kind of 5.1 surround---they had simple 'Dolby Surround'

But they have been given a 7.1 surround mix for Blu-ray.

How about we stick to the subject of the Blu-ray release and if you have a gripe about how audio mixes are changed from theatrical to home video you start a thread on that.

Wait, I have a better idea---you post another half dozen confusing out of context quotes so people don't understand what the hell you are saying, but think you are a huge expert.

 

[KirkSpockTOSFan]

I just picked up the "Next Generation" movie 4-pack on Blu-ray. Just started watching Generations, and man, I gotta say, what a pleasure and a thrill to see the good ole' 1701-D in full 1080p!

I have read all the arguments on this board and others about why it would be a bad idea to put TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on Blu-ray as well, and why it would not work, but, after starting up these blu-rays, it makes me want them all in full HD. Simply gorgeous in HD.

I also saw that the Star Trek XI Blu-ray is going to be quite a package. Can't wait for that one, as well.

Anyway, my two cent: pick this pack up asap! I can't imagine how cool the 1701-E and the Borg are going to look in HD.

I already got TNG movie collection on blu ray. I bought it the sametime as I bought TOS season 2 on blu ray last month. The first movie I watched from TNG blu ray collection was First Contact. I thought it was quite big difference from dvd. I have TOS movie collection on blu ray as well. I'm planing on getting Star Trek XI on blu ray when it comes out.

 

[Amaris]

I just got the set today from Amazon.com (got it for 35% off! yeah!). The first movie I popped into the BluRay player was First Contact. Wow, it's like an entirely different movie. The colors are vibrant and rich, the images crisp and clean, the audio is fantastic. The quality is, bar none, exceptional. I will be watching all of these today.


J.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I was excited to finally have a Frakes commentary for Insurrection. Back when the special edition DVDs were coming out, I was bummed to not have one. The FC commentary was hysterical and informative.

I love his First Contact commentary. He sounds either totally crazy or kinda drunk throughout the whole thing. I especially love his comments about the stuntmen in the scene where Captain Picard explains their plan to attack the Borg hub in engineering. I wonder if, in 20 years time, Frakes will replace Shatner as Star Trek's crazy uncle.

-The GEN commentary with David Carson and Manny Coto (acting as moderator) is nice but the Moore/Braga one is much more candid and informative.

What I realized from the Braga/Moore commentary on Generations is that I seem to be far more forgiving of the film than they are. They both seem to look on this piece of past work they did as a tragic misfire. I think it has some awkward visual problems and needed more Captain Kirk in it but I think the end result is decent. (Maybe it helps that I have such fond memories of seeing this movie on opening night on my 12th birthday.) I love their story about how Leonard Nimoy reacted when Rick Berman asked him to direct.

This is how all commentary tracks should be done. Braga & Moore have clearly gained a lot of perspective (perhaps even too much) on the film after 10 years. Bonus features always benefit when there's that added gap of time to reflect on the process.

-The back of the GEN Blu-Ray case features a still of Data from one of the later movies (you can tell from the uniform). QC people!

I hate it when that kind of thing happens. On the front of the new release of The Wrath of Khan, the photo of Admiral Kirk is from The Search for Spock. You can tell because Admiral Kirk is wearing the shirt from the scene where he & Sarek review the flight recorder footage of Spock's death.

"Villains" was interesting and it was nice to get Nick Meyer's take on the films he didn't direct.

Anything with Nicholas Meyer is always a joy. His commentary track on The Wrath of Khan is less a commentary track and more a 2 hour art theory lecture.

Either way, this can be done, but in order to be so it must be a cost-effective proposition.

In other words, Paramount should keep charging their normal
Star Trek prices.

I know this'll make me sound unsophisticated but...

Blu-Ray doesn't impress me.

I kinda agree. I'm actually glad that I have such a crappy TV. I'm convinced it's hiding all manner of FX sins with its poor resolution. I'd hate to see what Blu-Ray would do with the obvious matte boxes on The Terminator for example.

Well...and please note I really, really prefer to be diplomatic rather than blunt...Stuart Baird is an idiot.

I don't think it's that he's an idiot. I think he just didn't give a shit about the story he was directing. I also don't think he's a very dynamic, extroverted personality, which is why his commentary track was so lame.