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Any love for The Enterprise Incident?

There were like only two instances in the first season where the Enterprise crew infiltrated an alien planet and there was no explanation for how they could communicate. All the rest there was some logic to the fact that they were able to communicate with the aliens.
Return of the archons being the one that I can think of off the top of my head
 
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Third Season awesomeness. I love the start of the episode which begins with McCoys log stating how strange the Captain is acting lately. Cut to Kirk barking at everyone. Cut to Kirk entering the Neutral Zone in direct violation of treaty. He even gets to go insane and "die" in this episode.
 
I've always liked this one, but I wonder why no ship ever has it's shields up the entire time, I don't even think they mention shields.

I also find the cover story of Jim going rogue a bit troubling, how can the crew ever trust him again? Or if he starts acting irritable will everyone get tell themselves to get ready to invade enemy space?

I really don't like how some posters disrespect the Romulan Commander, she's playing the big game, seduce Spock and he can deliver the Enterprise, she can come back to the Praetor and she's pretty much in the driver's seat with an intact Federation Starship. It was all very plotted, she knew who was in command and who the first officer was, there's spies everywhere.

I want to hear what @Phaser Two says, he doesn't like this one, but he didn't say why.
You're the expert on these people, but you've always left out that one point. Why? I'm very interested in why.

:guffaw: Thanks for asking my opinion, and in such a completely hilarious way. Here's one thing you can be sure of: I'll respond when a bit more free and unburden myself with some criticism. :biggrin: :techman: (Many such critiques are possible!)

Sit down, mister.

:D :hugegrin: :bolian: Truly one of my favorite Kirk-as-unflappable-badass moments in the whole series. Utterly awesome. Talk about a serious Romulan episode.
 
I like the episode (probably rank it in the middle ground), but there are few things that bother me in two ways.

First, it's hard to accept that Kirk can impersonate a Romulan officer; and, it's unlikely that the cloaking device can just be tied into the deflector screen and be made to work in 10 minutes. I know there are a lot of other unbelievable things in this episode and in all of Star Trek, and I can suspend my disbelief with the best of them, but some things bother me more than others, and those bother me a lot in this episode.

Second, it's a little disturbing to see Scottty so eager to get the uniform off the Romulan officer, but glad they didn't show it. I don't think a Romulan would have yielded to that without a fight to the death, but maybe Scotty just stunned him. Spock was a ruthless heart breaker and Kirk lead an all out theft of property and technology. In the end, this episode shows our heroes acting quite ruthlessly and aggressively when you really think about it. Spock, Kirk, and Scotty are not exactly making me proud in this episode, and I can't help viewing the Romulans as more honorable. But, I guess you sometimes have to compromise your values when you are fighting for king and country or thinking about the greater good. In the end, Kirk's willingness to take the fall as a rogue insane commander, if they fail, wins me over. Spock would use cold logic and follow orders, so I accept it. And Scotty would betray his mother to get a look at new technology, but at least we know he would not really kill women like jack the ripper.
 
If anything bothers me about this episode, it’s something that can apply to all Trek: security sucks. There isn’t a single alarm or camera making sure crap like this doesn’t happen. Kirk never should have gotten anywhere near that area. This goes for starships as well. Guys like Lazarus and Bele just get to go anywhere and no thought of security footage or precautions.
 
I just watched it (first time in many years). A bit clunkier than I remembered, though I did appreciate the Romulan Commander’s charms (an element that was not especially notable when I first saw the episode in the 70s).

Remains where I ranked it above, better half of S3.
 
Minor technical tweaks (maybe harder to set up or explain):
1. How to beam Kirk over to the Romulan ship? Separate the two Romulan prisoners. Take uniform off one (why can't the computer just replicate one like the Nazi uniform for McCoy?). Since Kirk is dead, Scott tells the Romulans that in a show of good faith, he will beam one of the prisoners back to them (the one in clothes). Scott arranges to actually beam two people back to the Romulans from two different transporter rooms at the same time. The Romulans can only detect a single beaming event back to their ship which they assume is only their Centurion. Kirk is now secretly on the Romulan ship.
2. How does Kirk beam back with the cloaking device? Tell audience that for Kirk to escape, he needs to shutdown their deflectors (al a Obi Wan on the Death Star before the Falcon can escape.) As Scott said, it must be hooked into the deflector controls. The room that Kirk finds the cloaking device happens to be in the deflector control room. He presses a button and turns off their deflectors or shield or whatever. He also sabotages their sensors so they cannot detect any external scans, communications and transporting. He then radios to Scott to beam him and the entire large console directly to engineering's deflector control. Kirk and the console materialize in engineering. Show cloaking device console on floor in engineering which only needs a few cables tied to their deflector controls.
3. Kirk's removal of the cloaking device from the deflector system keeps the flagship's deflectors out of commission for the rest of the show. Enterprise can scan and beam Spock out.
 
If anything bothers me about this episode, it’s something that can apply to all Trek: security sucks. There isn’t a single alarm or camera making sure crap like this doesn’t happen. Kirk never should have gotten anywhere near that area. This goes for starships as well. Guys like Lazarus and Bele just get to go anywhere and no thought of security footage or precautions.

See also City on the Edge of Forever, where the most minimal security measures prevent the entire plot other than McCoy injecting himself.
 
I like the episode, I think the CGI blows.

Pretty much the case of all of that video-gamey crap from the remastered versions.

Great episode. One of my favorite Romulan stories in the franchise.

Yes. Not only is it one of the oft-mentioned best episodes of season 3, but its interesting in that another Romulan episode took the 1701 into an arena not necessarily normal for most missions; "Balance of Terror" was the cat and mouse submarine fight with internal racial politics making matters worse. While "The Enterprise Incident" was a straight Cold War espionage tale, and though not as prominent as BoT, there was an undercurrent of racial politics there (the Romulan Commander's observations about Spock's place, Spock himself talking about lack of certain opportunities, even if part of the ploy, etc.). For so few TOS appearances, both episodes gave the Romulans a dangerous air regarding just how far they would push the Federation in ways with arguably darker connotations than the Klingon stories (with the exception of "Errand of Mercy").
Unlike the hit and miss portrayal of Klingon leaders, every Romulan commander was formidable and interesting enough to make the audience want to know more. Most single-episode villains rarely have that effect on any TV series.
 
Gerrold is kind of a tool, unfortunately
I disagree. His criticisms of TOS in The World of Star Trek (and elsewhere since) are generally spot-on. And if you read TWoST you can see just how much influence his views had on the creation of TNG.
 
Clear as mud. What? And what does one have to do with the other?

Some shows or movies update their f/x to sell the same stories with better detail that really digs into the story. Case in point is this story as, CGI look aside, it is selling the notion of Romulans using their newly acquired Klingon ship technology alongside their own. The original f/x did not show this. This, to me, is an overall improvement, even if the CGI looks less photorealistic than TNG's.

Others just flaunt newer effects and sometimes upend the story's narrative. I was pointing out, as little as possible to prevent too much tangential stray, other shows that did this. You're free to compare those shows' original material and the revised ones at your own leisure, deciding if the new effects help the material or feel like pointless flaunting. Like big beasts trundling though sand that don't cast shadows and didn't add anything more to the scene to sell it better - what with their being stormtroopers meandering arund in a search and on giant beasts that move slower than they do and all...

In short, I was using a preemptive defense to critics of the CGI (who do make some valid points) as to why TOS-R did it, as well as comparing other shows that did it but failed with it.

Chapel did know "There's no such thing." Or maybe you meant some double negative where the Romulans don't know that there's no such thing?

Chapel didn't know about the purported grip as she states that line in astonishment to McCoy. I'm sure it was her who said it, but I was typing down notes too fast perhaps, I'll try to rewatch it today.

Your sentence construction is sometimes a tad baffling.

Sorry about that. Nobody's perfect, but I do appreciate your mentioning it. I will try to be more mindful and re-read before posting. Doing so might help in tightening up my posts as well.

Contradictory. How can it be simultaneously a "trope" and "novel"? And it's not novel. Playing insane is an old chestnut on TV drama.

Because every trope is novel at some point?

But you're right, I didn't look back far enough - it is an old chestnut. The way it came across I felt was handled very nicely.

I find the episode pedestrian. It feels to me like a 1st season episode of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, which was more spy/espionage-oriented than the show ultimately became. I can just imagine Richard Basehart chewing up the scenery as Shatner did.

Scene chewers rule. :)

And it's nice to see Trek borrow from other formats. Most shows do, once in a while. Doesn't always work but "The Enterprise Incident", at least for me, succeeds. It won't for everybody.
 
Does Kirk speak Romulan? Does a never mentioned "personal" universal translator work so perfectly that someone you are standing directly in front of not know you are speaking another language and a device is translating? After season one their ability to infiltrate alien cultures and not be detected was rubbish.

Regarding linguistics, I put a lot of Trek episodes on par with scenes such as the one from "Superman II" where Lois is under the Eiffel Tower where everyone should be speaking French but are instead speaking English with OTT accents. Lois may or may not know French, but a lot of the audience doesn't and from observation, a lot of people do not like reading subtitles. Not even in Star Wars. :D

TOS may have had its Bible (or it did not, I recall TNG having one but before I digress) but it too wasn't getting too wound up in these details either. The "universal translator" is a throwaway maguffin for the sole sake of storytelling because everyone was asking how everyone could understand each other, a typical problem in sci-fi and fantasy. Each person has their own perception on how a story should be told, what rules the story obeys as defined by the series it's in, and so on. Hence why nitpicks are often forgiven if the story is perceived as being better than the sum of its parts, or used to ding the story is seen as being worse than the sum of its parts. That's what the general rule appears to be.

And if you read TWoST you can see just how much influence his views had on the creation of TNG.

Season one TNG? :o

I like the episode but it is not one that you want to think about too much. For example, just exactly what was Strafleet's plan if Spock didn't encounter a Romulan who had the hots for him?

Which may have led to either a different story entirely, if not more interesting storytelling, with other fans of the show complaining "It's too much war stories, waah!" the way DS9 got belittled in the middle of its run. 100% of a fanbase will rarely agree on something, and even that doesn't happen 100% of the time. :devil:
 
No, it's a classic episode and I love those original three Klingon ships rather than the new CGI mob! Sub-Commander Tal looked pretty frightening I thought when he appears on screen and vicious enough to order the complete destruction of the Enterprise on a whim! :vulcan:
JB

I can definitely see why the original trio of Klingon ships worked better. Physical models tend to hold up better and those Klingon ship models were great for a 1960s TV show, much less its third season that was put to the backburner by the network. And the angles used for the f/x were largely excellent as well, the new model did get a fair amount of the budget and they found a clever way to use it. I recall Fontana's first draft having a bit more meat in the setup of a Romulan/Klingon alliance, whereas the produced episode glosses over that and arguably goes for the Cloaking Device

I don’t dislike this episode, but it does strain the credibility of Treknology, such as it is

Not disagreed. It does strain, but IMHO the timing and pacing of it all help soften the blow, wisely keeping the most of it until the end.

, almost to the breaking point:
1. The cloaking device is conveniently small and light enough to carry around like a vacuum cleaner. It could (probably should) have been the size of a school bus, and integrated much more solidly into the Romulan ship’s systems. Imagine trying to steal a radar system from an aircraft carrier.

2. It is easily found and identified by Kirk, and also easily disconnected, without being broken or electrocuting him in the process.

It is somewhat stretching to see Kirk waltz on in and via the Romulan's eye-motion alone figure out what and where it is. I'll agree in that a ton of luck was on Kirk's side. And yet the script doesn't specify the device as being more than a prototype to replace existing technology. Technology that has a short lifespan due to various factors and needs frequent replacing, thus making it modular is a more logical choice. One could argue ostensibly that a prototype at this stage could be modular, like a PC ISA peripheral card being removed out of a PC with its case off but with power on - which is dumb but doesn't always wreck either component. Or a more recent take, a USB peripheral, where removing it with power on won't hurt a thing.

To be fair, the device (which looks like the offspring of Nomad and Sargon and proving season 3 from the get-go had already a dramatically reduced budget, pun intended :o ) is conveniently placed in Trek's most overly used console set props, a cue they learned from "Lost in Space", but I suspect this scene alone wouldn't be as sketchy if the console set didn't look like the same thinly redressed set used in umpteen episodes.

If nothing else, TNG's phasing cloak from "The Pegasus" was far more svelte and smaller and did far more than cloak a ship that's more than twice the size of the ship they took it from. It also phases, going through matter. And, go figure, the Enterprise's engines didn't blow up when there's no reason they shouldn't have. Or they were lucky. At least Data admitted it would take several hours. :devil: But that's innovation for ya. Pegasus took from Enterprise Incident what was a nifty (if not flawed) idea and played with it.

And yet I bleated on glossing over the universal translator a moment ago for the sake of getting around storytelling impasses, LOL! :D

3. Scotty is able to quickly figure out how this alien device that he has never seen before works, and manages to splice it into Enterprise’s deflector shield control in about ten minutes without anything burning out or exploding.

No argument from me, I alluded loosely to that in my OP. He's one heck of a miracle worker and not knowing the data and power connections, it's amazing he didn't fry himself, the ship's deflector system, the cloaking device itself, or hamper another ship's system in the process - even Scotty himself was hesitant when given the order to throw that switch. But his trick worked and we got through the episode rather than seeing a rather depressing series finale.

Now you could counter by saying that Starfleet learned the technical details of the cloaking device from a Romulan spy well in advance, but this is never suggested in the episode. Even if true, Scotty was obviously out of the loop until the last minute, the one person that would have needed to know the theory and specifications in order to get it up and running so quickly.

Yup, that one is a mistake - it would make logical sense for Scotty to know all available material than for him to hunt'n'peck at it. The only exposition the story gave is that the Federation knows Romulans had a new technology even more effective than what they had in season 1. And augmented by Klingon ships, which are faster and more powerful. A little exposition would have helped get around some of these plot holes, especially in letting Scotty show all the real juicy details. The goal was to obtain the device but his own dialogue shows he has zero knowledge of it.

But the pressures and stressors in script writing, everything to keep track of, limited time in which to do rewrites... the original episode was somewhat different in scope. Even with nitpicks, everything - even the acting - just warms up for me, despite its flaws (which still exist, every story's got them). Not everybody would agree and I can't blame anyone, it's easy to see why this episode would be seen as overrated or otherwise. It's still highly enjoyable popcorn-worthy Trek, where the episode is still more than the sum of its parts, even the rusty parts.
 
My favorite thing about the episode is when the Commander et al realize Kirk was after the cloaking device, and she says "The cloaking device!", and they all run to the cloaking device room...
and no one LOOKS for the cloaking device right away. Tal checks the unconscious guard, the Commander looks over wall panels in the opposite direction of where the cloaking device was, and the other guards look around randomly, in any direction except where the cloaking device was. Finally Tal looks and shouts "The cloaking device!!" and everyone looks shocked it's gone. The whole scene was a painfully theatrical setup for the shouted revelation. Especially since the empty cloaking device socket was the first thing anyone would see as they entered the room.
 
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