• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Antonym for Transhumanism Term "Uplifting"?

Matthew Raymond

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
In Transhumanism, the term "uplifting" refers to the modification of a species to increase their intelligence, often to the point of sapience. I was wondering what the opposite term would be: devolving a species to a lower level of intelligence.

In the absence of anything specific, I think I like the term "downcasting". Does anyone know of a proper term for this?
 
Downcasting seems appropriate, although it might be confused with the computer term.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downcasting
It seems like downcasting, as defined in computer science, is "considered harmful". That might work to your advantage if you're using downcasting in a sinister context, but it's problematic if you have any degree of cyberwarfare in your story.

Actually, thinking about it, if you had someone who had was basically human, but had dolphin DNA, and they were exposed to a process that "de-uplifts" the subject, could they be misidentified as dolphins and have all their human DNA removed and their brains converted to cetacean brains? That would be an example very similar to the computer science definition of the word, because in programming, downcasting can result in erroneously casting to the wrong type, which produces an error.

Let's look at some other possibilities, though. "Dehancement" is to vague and cumbersome. "De-evolution" has a similar problem, with the added issue of it being misleading with regards to what evolution actually is.

I guess "de-uplift" is okay, but not very catchy. We could also use "downdrop", but the "drop" part seems to passive for what is basically more invasive than the process of uplifting.

Yeah, I think "downcasting" is the best for now. Structure your story correctly, and the association with downcasting in computer science may actually work as an effective metaphor.
 
Oh oh! What's that word for making things slower? Like a slower mental process. That word. Whatever it is.
 
Oh oh! What's that word for making things slower? Like a slower mental process. That word. Whatever it is.

That word is "retarding," but that has unfortunate connotations when applied to intelligence.


As for the suggestion of "devolving," I don't care for that word, because it's based on the false assumption that evolution has a specific "upward" direction that can be reversed or undone. Evolution is merely adaptation to environmental change, the selection among stochastically arising traits based on whether they happen to improve reproductive success in a given environment. It has no preferential direction.

If the idea is to return an uplifted species to its original state, then something like "reverting" might work. If the idea is just to take a naturally evolved species and reduce its intelligence, I have to wonder why you'd want to.
 
As for the suggestion of "devolving," I don't care for that word, because it's based on the false assumption that evolution has a specific "upward" direction that can be reversed or undone. Evolution is merely adaptation to environmental change, the selection among stochastically arising traits based on whether they happen to improve reproductive success in a given environment. It has no preferential direction.
Thanks. That's what I was implying when I was talking about "de-evolution".
If the idea is to return an uplifted species to its original state, then something like "reverting" might work. If the idea is just to take a naturally evolved species and reduce its intelligence, I have to wonder why you'd want to.
Who says the species has to be naturally intelligent?
 
As for the suggestion of "devolving," I don't care for that word, because it's based on the false assumption that evolution has a specific "upward" direction that can be reversed or undone. Evolution is merely adaptation to environmental change, the selection among stochastically arising traits based on whether they happen to improve reproductive success in a given environment. It has no preferential direction.

I think the majority of us understand the process of natural selection thanks.

I'd point out there are frequently conditions under which certain directions of evolution can be shown to be statistically improbably or even impossible given prior conditions and selective criteria, regardless of the current selective environment, effectively introducing preferential bias in the available selective lines towards sub optimal adaptations, but that would be diverting from the point.

Nonetheless "devolve" works just fine given a preexisting process of evolution, it needn't any grand order or master plan to the process at all, merely reversal of those transitive processes which have come before.
 
Last edited:
Cis/trans, Latin's not hard. Up/down, English is pretty easy. Transhumanism is self-masturbatory bollocks but if it entertains, I suppose, what's the harm. Why does everyone hope intelligence is the way to success. The nautilus has done pretty good for itself without it, not to mention the ants.

It would be no surprise if the ant and nautilus and other ancient travelers amongst us continue on past the next extinction event that seems promulgated by our intelligence creating, global warming and all, long after we are another footnote in the fossil record.
 
Last edited:
Cis/trans, Latin's not hard. Up/down, English is pretty easy. Transhumanism is self-masturbatory bollocks but if it entertains, I suppose, what's the harm. Why does everyone hope intelligence is the way to success. The nautilus has done pretty good for itself without it, not to mention the ants.

It would be no surprise if the ant and nautilus and other ancient travelers amongst us continue on past the next extinction event that seems promulgated by our intelligence creating, global warming and all, long after we are another footnote in the fossil record.
It's over 40 years since I studied Latin but cis and trans do not mean down and up. They are usually translated as "on this side of" and "across" or "on the other side of". I think the commonly used adverbs for up and down would have been sursum and deorsum but the prepositions super and sub are used as prefixes in English.
 
Last edited:
It's over 40 years since I studied Latin but cis and trans do not mean down and up. They are usually translated as "on this side of" and "across" or "on the other side of". I think the commonly used adverbs for up and down would have been sursum and deorsum but the prepositions super and sub are used as prefixes in English.
You're quite right, I was typing faster than thinking and being very scattered. Trans/cis was about the humanism in the opening post and up/down was about the lifting in that opening paragraph.
 
@Spot261, gonna have to disagree. First of all, "devolve" has an existing definition. You can possibly stretch that definition to be the opposite of either uplifting or evolution, but it's sort of grafted on and doesn't naturally flow from the word's definition.

Secondly, uplifting is not the same thing as "evolving", thus the reverse is not necessarily the same thing as "de-evolving". In the situation where you're de-uplifting a naturally intelligent species, that's genetic engineering, plain and simple. You're just engineering a species to be dumber instead of smarter. For species that have already been uplifted, it's more of a genetic restoration. You aren't actually reversing evolution because they didn't evolve that way in the first place.
Are you asking specifically about undoing an uplift, or speaking more generally?
I'm asking in general, but my immediate intended use is in the context of religious zealots reverting a species to it's original DNA, thus destroying their entire society and civilization.
Transhumanism is self-masturbatory bollocks but if it entertains, I suppose, what's the harm.
I don't entirely disagree, but I feel there's a difference between the various philosophies of Transhumanism and the general topic of the long-term effects of transhumanism-related technologies on humanity. I think it's interesting to explore various ideas from transhumanism without necessarily drinking the Kool-aid. For example, postgenderism is an interesting concept to explore, but the idea that things like patriarchy will just disappear if we eliminate gender differences is ridiculous.
Why does everyone hope intelligence is the way to success.
Probably because you're on a Trek-related Website forum, and in Star Trek, characters usually succeed by using their intellects.
 
I'm asking in general, but my immediate intended use is in the context of religious zealots reverting a species to it's original DNA, thus destroying their entire society and civilization.

If their motive is religious zealotry, then their term for it would probably be rooted in their ideology -- maybe "purification" or something along those lines. You could call it "cleansing" if you wanted to draw an allegorical parallel with "ethnic cleansing" as a euphemism for genocide.
 
Secondly, uplifting is not the same thing as "evolving", thus the reverse is not necessarily the same thing as "de-evolving". In the situation where you're de-uplifting a naturally intelligent species, that's genetic engineering, plain and simple. You're just engineering a species to be dumber instead of smarter. For species that have already been uplifted, it's more of a genetic restoration. You aren't actually reversing evolution because they didn't evolve that way in the first place.

It's up to you but coming from a background of evolutionary psychology I'd suggest that you're limiting yourself to a fairly narrow concept of "evolution".

You're making the common error of conflating "evolution" with "natural selection", much as did a previous poster, the former being a fairly broad term in the scientific literature, the second being much more specifically one of several possible specific mechanisms of action. Assuming the process of uplifting (or genetic engineering) was not a singular species wide "event" but happened progressively then the word "evolve" would apply quite legitimately as it has been used for decades in reference to artificial selection.

An artificially selected trait or phenotype can accurately be said to have "evolved" every bit as accurately as can one driven by natural selection and therefore the reversal would just as legitimately be devolution.

I think the bigger issue you have with the terminology would lie in the specifics of the religious tenets of your species. If they were uncomfortable with such concepts in a way that parallels our creationism then they'd likely adopt terminology which reflected that stance, but would such a uniformly dogmatic species be willing to research and make use of genetic engineering in the first place?
 
If their motive is religious zealotry, then their term for it would probably be rooted in their ideology -- maybe "purification" or something along those lines. You could call it "cleansing" if you wanted to draw an allegorical parallel with "ethnic cleansing" as a euphemism for genocide.
True, but the good guys have to call it something too...
It's up to you but coming from a background of evolutionary psychology [...]
Oh boy!
[...] I'd suggest that you're limiting yourself to a fairly narrow concept of "evolution".
In science, evolution is a natural process. It is not any artificial form of genetic manipulation, as all forms thereof take away some fundamental part of the evolutionary process. I acknowledge that it is convenient to use the term "evolution" in broader terms, but it can serve to undermine general understanding of the scientific theory itself, and we already have a hard enough time getting people to accept evolution as an actual thing that is real without conflating it with a thousand other things.
An artificially selected trait or phenotype can accurately be said to have "evolved" every bit as accurately as can one driven by natural selection and therefore the reversal would just as legitimately be devolution.
First of all, you're saying that any type of breeding is "evolution", which would basically mean that we were "evolving" animals and plants since hunter-gatherers were tossing bones to the friendlier gray wolves.

Secondly, in the natural process of evolution, back mutations happen all the time. That is not reverse or retrograde evolution; it's simply a part of the evolutionary process. What you're talking about is simply breeding for original characteristics, like breeding horses to have the traits of ancient wild horses. Just because you do it incrementally doesn't make it a form of evolution.

Think about it this way. If you "reverse evolve" an animal to a previous state, do the genes of that animal actually match a naturally occurring instance of that animal from long ago? Are the genes of the new animal a combination of genes that could have actually happened in nature long ago, or do you have an animal that more closely resembles an average of the ancient genome, lacking any genetic diversity?

Perhaps you don't even have the original genome, or an incomplete copy. You select for ancient traits, but you can't actually verify that traits that superficially match the recorded traits of the animal are from the original DNA. It could simply be a completely new gene that acts like the old one, but works in a completely different manner. Imagine if you knew that birds once had wings to fly, but you're working with a species of flightless bird that has no feathers. Trying to "reverse" to a flight-capable bird could result in an animal that has the general body of a bird, but the wings of a bat!

In a nutshell: You can't go home again, evolutionarily speaking. Jurassic Park never really had any dinosaurs. They were always approximations made from incomplete data.
 
In science, evolution is a natural process. It is not any artificial form of genetic manipulation, as all forms thereof take away some fundamental part of the evolutionary process. I acknowledge that it is convenient to use the term "evolution" in broader terms, but it can serve to undermine general understanding of the scientific theory itself, and we already have a hard enough time getting people to accept evolution as an actual thing that is real without conflating it with a thousand other things.

Nope, evolution is an incremental (and occasionally catastrophic) process, nothing in the definition requires that it occur without human intervention. Again, you are equating natural selection with evolution. The two are related but distinct concepts. A species can evolve via any number of mechanisms, of which NS is but one. Natural selection is the process of adapting to the environment nature presents, artificial selection is simply humans wilfully exerting control over that environment in order to manipulate the selective process.

First of all, you're saying that any type of breeding is "evolution", which would basically mean that we were "evolving" animals and plants since hunter-gatherers were tossing bones to the friendlier gray wolves.

Which is correct, that's exactly what was happening to those grey wolves and isn't in any doubt. In fact it's the classic example used to illustrate the process. Artificial selection is a well established mechanism of evolution, Darwin himself coined the term. Sexual selection is essentially a very specific, contextual and very well studied example of this applied unintentionally to ourselves. I'm not sure why you'd seemingly have a grounding in evolutionary theory and object to such a well established piece of the groundwork?

Secondly, in the natural process of evolution, back mutations happen all the time. That is not reverse or retrograde evolution; it's simply a part of the evolutionary process. What you're talking about is simply breeding for original characteristics, like breeding horses to have the traits of ancient wild horses. Just because you do it incrementally doesn't make it a form of evolution.

Yes it does I'm afraid to say, that's exactly what it means. Back mutations do occur but there are provisos, the genotype will not revert to an earlier form and the tendency is always towards greater complexity as adaptations reflect ever increasing mutations on the original genetic material, regardless of the apparent direction of physiological change.

However even at the physiological level there are significant limitations on this process as the very traits being selected for themselves become part of the selective environment. One cannot go back to the "drawing board" so to speak. An elephant, for instance, could not evolve wings in order to gain access to food sources out of it's reach, nor could selective processes reduce it's mass in order to prepare for such a mutation. The likely solution would be to develop a longer trunk or more powerful hind legs precisely because it's own naturally evolved physical dimensions have limited the available options. The organism is a part of it's own environment and it's own form both applies selective pressures and sets boundaries on the adaptive options.


Think about it this way. If you "reverse evolve" an animal to a previous state, do the genes of that animal actually match a naturally occurring instance of that animal from long ago? Are the genes of the new animal a combination of genes that could have actually happened in nature long ago, or do you have an animal that more closely resembles an average of the ancient genome, lacking any genetic diversity?

Assuming you do so via our currently available means what you have is a new, more complex genome which functionally mirrors an earlier form on the morphological level. This is not a new concept, it's merely a particularly contrived form of convergent evolution, with a modern organism adopting the same (or similar) functional adaptations that had served an ancestor.

However from the point of view of your story I'm assuming you are talking about a species reverse mapping the genotype? The distinction between that and the scenario above (selecting for phenotypes via artificial selection) is redundant for this discussion as both would warrant use of the term "reverse evolution" on the phenotypic level. The fact they would result in the end characteristics via a different combination of genetic materials (or that only one is capable of reproducing an ancient genotype) doesn't make one jot of difference to use of the term. After all bear in mind the vast majority of any species genetic material is "junk" from the organisms point of view anyway.

Perhaps you don't even have the original genome, or an incomplete copy. You select for ancient traits, but you can't actually verify that traits that superficially match the recorded traits of the animal are from the original DNA. It could simply be a completely new gene that acts like the old one, but works in a completely different manner. Imagine if you knew that birds once had wings to fly, but you're working with a species of flightless bird that has no feathers. Trying to "reverse" to a flight-capable bird could result in an animal that has the general body of a bird, but the wings of a bat!

In a nutshell: You can't go home again, evolutionarily speaking. Jurassic Park never really had any dinosaurs. They were always approximations made from incomplete data.

Which was exactly the point I made in my earlier post, which is making your objections somewhat bewildering. There's no resetting the clock on the genetic level, there's always an entropic process and a tendency towards complexity, therefore evolution does have an inherent direction, despite the lack of master plan. That has no bearing, however, on making arbitrary distinctions on what processes do or do not qualify as being part of "evolution", especially as the existing frameworks are so clear.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top