Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

[froot]

To be honest, I like this idea better than the Mirror Universe in some ways because it gives the characters a reason to be comic-book evil and hammy. Someone wrote them that way in a holodeck program in order to prove a point.

Whereas with the MU, we're supposed to buy that the characters are actually mustache-twirling comic-book villains. MU episodes are fun and all, and goatee Spock is a freaking legend, but I'm still a little more fond of the approach taken in Living Witness.

Also, I liked Doc's little verbal tribute to B'Elanna since the actress was still out of commission. Too bad we didn't get an evil!B'Elanna, too, but it was nice that they remembered her.

And evil!Janeway... well... what can I say? Rowl. NX-01, I like Borg!Seven best myself. I found her a lot cooler that way.

EDIT: I'm shocked you found Tuvok's smile nice, shatnertage. That little scene gives me the willies every time!

 

[exodus]

I thought it was hilarious that they're interpretation of mama's boy Harry Kim was that of a masochist.

For a blooper reel, I would have made him play it like Nathan Lane from "The Birdcage" instead.

 

[Shatnertage]

^ At first, I thought that Chakotay's tattoo was just drawn on with magic marker, which would have been even funnier than the funny stuff we got.

 

[exodus]

^ At first, I thought that Chakotay's tattoo was just drawn on with magic marker, which would have been even funnier than the funny stuff we got.

I was thinking mascara or water based body paint. So when he started to sweat under the set lights, it would start to run.

 

[NX-01]

^ At first, I thought that Chakotay's tattoo was just drawn on with magic marker, which would have been even funnier than the funny stuff we got.

I was thinking mascara or water based body paint. So when he started to sweat under the set lights, it would start to run.

That would have been good. lol

 

[Shatnertage]

Ooof. I've just watched...

"Demon"

This one...was not good.

I liked the "new" Harry Kim we saw in the beginning, but when he started over-explaining his new attitude, it really lost its impact. This would have worked if he had changed direction after any one of those life-changing incidents, but to say, "Yeah, I was just thinking about this the other day and thought I needed to change," is a little weak.

And then the "ribbing" between him and Tom about who has the worse sense of humor is not at all funny.

Two bright spots: Torres is back, and so is Vorik! It's nice to see him, keeping his cool. The whole episode should have just been Vorik doing stand-up: "Take my chief engineer...please."

Neelix and the Doctor a dueling over sleeping space, which was at least handled competently, though truth to be told they both come off as dickish.

The actual plot of the episode was ridiculous for more reasons than I'm probably aware of. If the "silver blood" (Was that ripped off of a vampire novel or what?) mimics DNA, how come it makes clothes? And the "demon" planet seems a lot more hospitable than our nearest neighbor, Venus. I'm pretty sure the shuttle would have been crushed on Venus after a few minutes, to say nothing of the EV suits.

Then, at the end, the "Silver Blood" is somehow holding the ship down, using purely physical force--and speaking with "Harry" through some kind of telekinetic link...you really might as well say, "It's an evil wizard."

And at first the radiation would have fried the ship from orbit; then suddenly it's OK to take the ship onto the planet?

The funny thing is, the story was by the show's science consultant. So you'd think this would be more of a hard sci-fi story, or at least one that's not completely nonsensical.

Outside of the two in engineering, I really don't have a lot nice to say about this episode.

Except...there's a wonderful Janeway moment when she's on the bridge and makes a reference to "Harry Kim, or whoever he is," and just brushes him aside with a little flip of her hand. I. Loved. That.

 

[froot]

The actual plot of the episode was ridiculous for more reasons than I'm probably aware of. If the "silver blood" (Was that ripped off of a vampire novel or what?) mimics DNA, how come it makes clothes?

They repeatedly call the stuff BIO-MIMETIC FLUID like the whole episode and yet it obviously mimics non-organic material and... and other... things *coughs conspicuously*. I have no idea why they didn't just call the silver goo something else.

Demon is definitely not a good episode. It's boring. But I adore the landing sequence. Foundation Imaging knocked those CG scenes out of the park, IMO.

That landing makes the older landing sequences from the first couple seasons blush in shame. Lovely.

 

[Shatnertage]

The kicker for me was that, despite the "demon" atmosphere, Harry's hair remained perfectly shellacked.

Outside of the temperature, which wasn't mentioned after the first ten minutes, and the radiation, which was barely hand-waved away, this wasn't really that hostile an environment: no howling winds, no crushing pressure.

I'm just glad that it didn't turn into "the planet's really a paradise, and just looks like a class-Y to fool people" story.

 

[Markira]

Demon is definitely not a good episode. It's boring. But I adore the landing sequence. Foundation Imaging knocked those CG scenes out of the park, IMO.

That landing makes the older landing sequences from the first couple seasons blush in shame. Lovely.

I loved the landing sequence, too, but only because Chakotay got to do it.

And to add substance to my comment, I will note that I was shouting at the tv for them to get the f outta there without providing their dna to the planet. That just can't bode well for the future, if the writers choose to suddenly pick this up for continuity later on down the road. (Speaking as someone who's only just watched through a few eps of season 5, so I truly don't know if this will come up again).

 

[Mareika]

I loved the landing sequence, too, but only because Chakotay got to do it.

And to add substance to my comment, I will note that I was shouting at the tv for them to get the f outta there without providing their dna to the planet. That just can't bode well for the future, if the writers choose to suddenly pick this up for continuity later on down the road. (Speaking as someone who's only just watched through a few eps of season 5, so I truly don't know if this will come up again).

Hi Markira- good to know there`s another one who likes Chakotay. I`m also a Chakotay fangirl.

Interesting to read your thoughts about Demon! Watch some later episodes! But I don`t want to spoil you.

As for the episodes- Living Witness belongs to my alltime favorites. I think they show perfectly how different things can be seen by various people, who got different informations about history.

shatnertage, I`m glad you didn`t find "Unforgettable" THAT bad and "forgettable" . I like the episode. I think Robert and Virginia Madsen had a good chemistry together.
But there are some things I didn`t understand- why didn`t Chakotay defended her when she was attacked by the pursuer? He stood there and he did- NOTHING!! It`s strange!

 

[Shatnertage]

^ Chakotay seems like a generally go-with-the-flow kind of guy, so I'm not surprised he didn't take vigorous action there. And the script didn't call for it, I guess.

Well, I'm back with more. This time, I'm faced with true loneliness. Yes, I watched...

"One"

Well, at least I understand now why everyone in the ENT forum hates "Doctor's Orders" so much. It's pretty derivative of this episode. But, maybe because I saw the episode first and I like Phlox much more than Seven, I still can't bring myself not to like "Doctor's Orders."

"One," on the other hand...it's just another blah episode. Lately, there have been a lot of duds. The great episodes are really great, but the mediocre ones are pretty bad.

There's a total overload of Seven, which is barely leavened by some good material from the Doctor.

My problem with Seven is that she seems to be so disdainful of everyone. It's not just that she's emotionless or pulls a superior attitude like Tuvok. She really seems to be talking down to everyone, all the time. It gets annoying.

The creepy imaginary alien was pretty cool, though. And I liked the part where all of the regulars are telling Seven she can't do it.

But there was a lot of stuff that didn't make sense, particularly the resolution. In my limited understanding of how space works, it doesn't make sense that if you turn off life support you'll immediately start the freeze and suffocate. Isn't there a lot of air floating around in the ship? And wouldn't the insulation of the near-vacuum surrounding the ship keep you from losing all of your heat right away? And if heat really does dissipate that way, wouldn't turning off life support also freeze the people in stasis?

The general idea was good, but it had some flaws.

I'm hoping that the fourth season ends with a bang. So far, it's been pretty uneven.

 

[exodus]

^^I thought it was called "One Night In Sickbay"?

Well if she's been Borg her whole life and raised to believe she is near perfect, why wouldn't you expect Seven to talk down to everyone? The Doc. does the same thing.

Yes, you will freeze & suffocate to death without life support.
Space is that cold.
It takes the average insulated home a half hour or less get cold on the coldest winter day with the heat off. How long would heat last with 150 people breathing it?(in space.)
Stasis is individually climate controlled.
We've seen folks survive nuclear radiation in them(The Thaw).

Sorry you found s4 uneven.
I think between it and s5, it's Voyager's strongest season.

 

[Shatnertage]

^ Yes, the average home will get cold in the winter, but that's because the air outside (and I guess the ground below) is a conductor. Isn't vacuum the ideal insulator? So wouldn't it take much longer to get cold? (My reading of this NASA page suggests yes, but I'm willing to cede to an expert.)

Almost ready with my thoughts on "Hope and Fear." I have hope to get some RL work done before I can do that, but I fear that I might not be able to do it..

 

[Shatnertage]

As promised, I'm back with...

"Hope and Fear"

I hoped that this would be good, but feared that it might be bad. So it was a good title.

And it was actually intriguing. The alien's voice sounds familiar--is he the dad from Twin Peaks? He gets some major scenery-chewing in towards the end, in a good way. Kind of.

It's an interesting idea that, if look too closely at it, doesn't make a lot of sense. Presumably, only the Borg and Janeway (and her senior officers) knew about the "deal" to cross Borg space in exchange for help against 8472. I doubt the Borg talked about it to others, so how did Baldie (I forget his name) find out?

And after watching "One," something dawned on me about Seven. She's been conditioned to live in a collective, so detests loneliness. So then why's she always starting shit with everyone, particularly the captain?

If you wanted to be realistic, you'd make her the Andy Bernard of the ship--trying desperately to ingratiate herself with the new boss and fit in. Even the anger management thing is a fit. Instead, she just talks down to everyone, almost all the time. Janeway has the patience of a saint.

But there is a touching moment as she realizes she doesn't want to rejoin the collective.

This episode was shot in an unusual way--there are lots of shots where you see whoever's speaking through tubing or some other kind of obstruction. Is it a commentary on the uncertain future the ship faces, or just neat? I don't know.

If the Dauntless really was legit, couldn't they send it back to the AQ with a small crew to make sure it worked, then just come back and get the rest of the ship six months later? I don't think it was an all-or-nothing choice.

Baldie's plan was pretty bad, I've got to say.

I really liked the quantum slipstream graphics--it just looks cooler than warp. But I hate the cop-out at the ending: they got the slipstream to work just long enough to solve the plot problem, but it won't be useful in future episodes. Or will it?

 

[T.D. Possum]

And it was actually intriguing. The alien's voice sounds familiar--is he the dad from Twin Peaks?

YES! You may also remember him from TNG - he was in "Who Watches the Wacthers". Shot Picard with an arrow and all that.

so how did Baldie (I forget his name) find out?

Bob told him.

I really liked the quantum slipstream graphics--it just looks cooler than warp. But I hate the cop-out at the ending: they got the slipstream to work just long enough to solve the plot problem, but it won't be useful in future episodes. Or will it?

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I really liked the quantum slipstream graphics--it just looks cooler than warp. But I hate the cop-out at the ending: they got the slipstream to work just long enough to solve the plot problem, but it won't be useful in future episodes. Or will it?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I liked how Seven was portrayed in this ep, and Janeway hit the nail on the head when she said..."I don't buy it. This isn't about your independence or your superiority, this is about your fear. You're not making this choice because you've outgrown humanity. I think you're afraid to go back to Earth."

And her big sister B'Elanna was pretty insightful herself, although she didn't realize it when she teased...

TORRES: That's looking on the bright side. Let's put it this way. I'd rather face the music back home than spend the rest of my life in the Delta quadrant. What about you. Looking forward to seeing Earth?
SEVEN: No.
TORRES: I'm not surprised. You think people are going to resent an ex-Maquis, what about an ex-drone? We'll be outcasts together. I'm kidding, Seven. It's a joke. Work on that sense of humour. It'll help you make friends on Earth.

Seven was an outcast on a ship with 150 (give or take) souls because of her limitations in the social graces. Imagine the fear of facing a planet full of individuals!

As for her loneliness after the collective, Seven again looks to be playing this correctly. She may crave togetherness, but in a fashion not available to her on Voyager, and having grown up in the collective, she doesn't really know how to "make friends". Her closest connections are with her authority figures... Janeway, Tuvok, and the EMH. And Janeway, being the most emotional of the three will create the most tension with her.

But of course, Janeway being the most emotional of the three, is also the one most likely to make the strongest connection.


JANEWAY: Déja-vu.
SEVEN: Captain?
JANEWAY: As I recall, this is where our relationship began. In a Brig nine months ago. I severed you from the Collective and you weren't exactly happy about it.
SEVEN: No, I was not.
JANEWAY: In case I never get a chance to say this, I realise I've been hard on you at times, but it was never out of anger or regret that I brought you on board. I'm your Captain. That means I can't always be your friend. Understand?
SEVEN: No. However, if we are assimilated, our thoughts will become one and I'm sure I'll understand perfectly. A joke, Captain. You, yourself have encouraged me to use my sense of humour.
JANEWAY: It's nice to know you've taken some of my advice to heart.
SEVEN: You were correct. My desire to remain in the Delta quadrant was based on fear. I am no longer Borg, but the prospect of becoming human is unsettling. I don't know where I belong.
JANEWAY: You belong with us.

Since I love Mama Janeway, you'd be correct in guessing that I love this ep.

 

[Shatnertage]

YES! You may also remember him from TNG - he was in "Who Watches the Wacthers". Shot Picard with an arrow and all that.

I knew he sounded familiar.

 

[froot]

I really liked the quantum slipstream graphics--it just looks cooler than warp. But I hate the cop-out at the ending: they got the slipstream to work just long enough to solve the plot problem, but it won't be useful in future episodes. Or will it?

Also, there's a tumblr blog out there of someone who worked for Foundation Imaging, and he claims the "slipstream" graphics were inspired by Doctor Who.

And, yes, Janeway puts up with Seven way too much, IMO. Like I said, I think she's too soft on her.

 

[Shatnertage]

I don't have any new episodes (no disc in the mail yet), but I've got to say that the season 4 extras were neat.

Garrett Wang is way more interesting and cool than Harry Kim. Maybe it's because by the time they filmed his stuff, he'd been honing his act on the convention circuit for a few years, but he's just way more engaging than his character ever was on the show. Does this mean he's a bad actor because he couldn't channel that charisma into his character, or just that they didn't give him anything good to work with?

And I can definitely see that Kate Mulgrew had some issues with Jeri Ryan. The body language says it all. At one point when she's talking about her coming on the show, she does that little dismissive handwave thing. Very telling.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

As promised, I'm back with...

"Hope and Fear"
And after watching "One," something dawned on me about Seven. She's been conditioned to live in a collective, so detests loneliness. So then why's she always starting shit with everyone, particularly the captain?

It's a classic theme, she needs people yet she pushes them away. She cannot stand to be alone but the experience of being with, in the collective, has not prepared her for being with as an individual dealing with other individuals. In the beginning nearly every exchange freaks her out and threatens her.. being with people as an individual is not the hive mind harmony of borg life. Yet she is also unable to bear being alone with only herself, so she is driven to keep interacting and failing at interacting.