Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

[J.Ashmore]

I loved Scorpion. But, as you said James T. Chanukah, I didn't like how Janeway miraculously recovered.

I like Seven of Nine, I just don't appreciate the reason why she's there. It would have been so much worse if she wasn't an interesting and fractured character and only there to sway her hips and push out her boobs, but she really turned out to be a wonderful and ever-interesting individual. Jeri Ryan played her wonderfully, I think.

Also interesting was the Chakotay/Janeway crossfire. I liked it a lot better than having Chakotay being the commander that follows the captain wherever she leads and doesn't question her judgement or hold a different opinion. It gives us an idea how hard it must be to have been in his situation, knowing what he was going to do would go against Janeway's wishes but it might also hurt their friendship. And, if his plan didn't work out and they all died, he would have to face a very angry and disappointed Kathryn in the afterlife.

Also, I think "Scorpion" is just a killer name for an episode. Yeaahh.

 

[T.D. Possum]

Definitely one of my top ten all time faves from across all series. Love "Scorpion"! Others in this thread have already explained the reasons it's great with far more eloquence than I could manage, so I'll not ramble on too much.

I do think, though, that it could have been improved in one way - I brought this up a while back when J'Rulz asked about scenes we wish had been filmed - I would have loved to have seen the look on Janeway's face when she woke up and the Doc told her what Chakotay had done!

Oh, and I also want to know why the Doc had Janeway all naked for treatment of a head injury. Of course, the more naked Janeway, the better, but that seemed a bit odd to me and takes me out of the moment a little.

 

[J.Ashmore]

I do think, though, that it could have been improved in one way - I brought this up a while back when J'Rulz asked about scenes we wish had been filmed - I would have loved to have seen the look on Janeway's face when she woke up and the Doc told her what Chakotay had done!

Oh, and I also want to know why the Doc had Janeway all naked for treatment of a head injury. Of course, the more naked Janeway, the better, but that seemed a bit odd to me and takes me out of the moment a little.

I agree that it would have been really interesting to see Janeway's reaction when she woke up. But, at the same time, I think it would ruin the suspense when Chipotle came in to sickbay and we had no idea if she would be diplomatic or go all crazy on him.

And naked Janeway? Even if it's completely pointless, I wouldn't question why she was naked. Even if it was distracting

 

[Shatnertage]

Well, maybe it was karma for Janeway. She was the one who figured the best way to be inconspicuous in Tuvok's memory/dream/virus thingie was to knock out Rand and steal her clothes.

All right...I'm on to...

"The Gift"

Since I saw the last minute of this on the "Kes Time Capsule," the suspense is totally ruined. I actually thought that maybe they'd get edgy with Kes' departure and have her get assimilated by the Borg. Imagine how unsettling a Kes Borg Queen would have been.

This episode was the first real dud since "Rise" (Favorite Son" was lame, but acceptable enough for what it was. And dessicated husbands are always amusing.). It was just tedious in a way that nothing else has been for a while.

Is it because it's a bottle show? I don't think so--some of my favorite Treks are bottle shows. "Cause and Effect," "Observer Effect," and probably many more that I'm not thinking of right now. It's just that this episode really drags, and Kes leaves in a way that's almost completely undramatic.

I've got to say that I wasn't much of a fan of Seven from what I saw of her in the season 6/7 episodes I've seen, though I resolved to approach the character with an open mind. And...I'm still not much of a fan of Seven so far. That final scene with the reveal of her in the silver catsuit is actually pretty funny. Why they wouldn't just give her a standard uniform is beyond me. Or even one of Tom's Hawaiian shirts.

Anyone think that maybe the Doctor is a little perverted? After all, in the last episode he stripped Janeway to take care of a head injury. In this one, he boasts about the "aesthetics" of what he's done with Seven, and probably had a hand in creating her form-fitting catsuit.

 

[T.D. Possum]

In fact, it was the Doc who created the catsuit. This will be addressed in passing later, and we will see a tight fitting dress he also made for her. Supposedly, her clothing (sometimes called a "biosuit") has some kind of special property that she requires because of something about her implants blah blah blah.

I can't remember if the specifics were ever explained. Maybe I just didn't pay attention. Because we all know the real reason she's dressed like that. Although in my opinion, she looks much nicer in regular clothing.

Anyway . . . Seven might grow on you. I think a lot of people disliked her at first, and changed their minds later. She does get a lot of character development throughout the rest of the series. And yes, she can be very funny at times!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Anyway . . . Seven might grow on you. I think a lot of people disliked her at first, and changed their minds later. She does get a lot of character development throughout the rest of the series. And yes, she can be very funny at times!

If I were to guess, what scene AMG would like to be in, I suspect she'd pick Seven at the end of this ep.


JANEWAY: You'll have to spend a few hours each day regenerating in a Borg alcove until your human metabolism can function on it's own. We'll leave one operational.
SEVEN: Understood.
JANEWAY: Let's see how things go over the next few weeks. I'll consider granting you access to the rest of the ship once that I can trust that you won't try to get us all assimilated again.
SEVEN: It will not happen again
JANEWAY: Good. If you need anything, contact me. (Janeway hands Seven a communicator.)
SEVEN: (Turning away from Janeway as she tries to leave with her security team, Seven adds.) Red.
JANEWAY: What? (Janeway stops and turns back to the woman in the silver suit.)
SEVEN: The child you spoke of, the girl. Her favourite colour was red. (She says, to the women with red shoulders and auburn hair.)

Don't even bother to ask... I'm willing to replace Janeway in any planetside scene from season 2's "Resolutions".

As for Seven, as much as I loved Kes... her addition was a welcome change.

As for "all Seven all the time", when I rewatched season 4 a year ago, I was struck by how much MORE of an ensemble show it was that year. R=The only thing lacking was a significant B'Elanna presence and that was due to the actor's pregnancy.

 

[T.D. Possum]

I'm willing to replace Janeway in any planetside scene from season 2's "Resolutions".

I never knew you were so fond of monkeys.

Just kiddin', dear!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I'm willing to replace Janeway in any planetside scene from season 2's "Resolutions".

I never knew you were so fond of monkeys.

Just kiddin', dear!

Oh... wait...

There WAS a monkey in that bathtub scene... .

Thankfully he wasn't the ONLY male primate in THAT scene.

CHAKOTAY: Looking for a pet?
JANEWAY: No. Looking for a clue about primate physiology on this planet. They must have to contend with insect bites too.

She really has NO CLUE about primate physiology, does she.

 

[Shatnertage]

SEVEN: (Turning away from Janeway as she tries to leave with her security team, Seven adds.) Red.
JANEWAY: What? (Janeway stops and turns back to the woman in the silver suit.)
SEVEN: The child you spoke of, the girl. Her favourite colour was red. (She says, to the women with red shoulders and auburn hair.)

I was wondering about that when I saw it--seemed like too much of a coincidence, if you ask me.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

SEVEN: (Turning away from Janeway as she tries to leave with her security team, Seven adds.) Red.
JANEWAY: What? (Janeway stops and turns back to the woman in the silver suit.)
SEVEN: The child you spoke of, the girl. Her favourite colour was red. (She says, to the women with red shoulders and auburn hair.)

I was wondering about that when I saw it--seemed like too much of a coincidence, if you ask me.

Yes, and that is why I disputed a Star Trek Trivia game that claimed Seven's fav color was green.

Her fav color is red.

Her fav Kotiskot game piece color was green.

We know who Seven imprints herself upon, when she wakes up on Voyager, and it certainly wasn't Chakotay.

 

[Shatnertage]

Yes, there is a definite mama duck thing going on there.

Which brings me to...

"Day of Honor"

First thought..."Oh crap, it's a Klingon episode." About ten minutes in, with all the "Seven has to feel useful" stuff, I'm convinced that I'm looking at two dud episodes in a row.

Then it turned around. Not because of the Seven stuff, but because of Torres' almost comically bad day. The turning point was when she had to eject the warp core--that made it clear that she was really having one of those days. Her alarm clock not going off, the sonic shower breaking, getting stuck with the new kid on her team...it was all leading up to that.

Plus, the scene where she beats the crap out of the holoKlingon was gold. Extra points for nailing the one Klingon in the nads with the pain stick.

If Neelix really wanted people to watch his TV show, he'd run a "Voyager's Funniest Home Video" segment with footage of nothing but holocharacters getting hit in the package with Klingon pain sticks.

Oh yeah, back to the episode. Paris is really pushing it with Torres here, isn't he? Even more than usual. Then he falls back on the "it's so hard to be your...friend" line, which should have knocked him out of the running right there.

And did I mention that Vorik's back? And I'm actually glad to see him. I think I tell you all you need to know about how I feel about Seven right now when I say that I was seriously wondering why they didn't make Vorik a permanent cast member instead of Seven. And I love the look that Paris gives him at the beginning. Getting possessive already!

The homeless begging aliens were a good touch--it showed the real destruction that the Borg caused. I guess the Delta quadrant doesn't have much of a safety net. Though I kept on expecting the lead alien to say, "I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a replicator today."

OK, so Paris and Torres are floating around in space, a la 2001. Why is Paris talking r e a l l y s l o w l y while Torres is speaking normally? It kind of threw that scene off for me, even though it was a great scene. Though Torres saying, "I love you" was a bit premature. Still, it was heart-warming. I loved the visual of Voyager in Torres' visor at the end.

Despite getting dragged down by the Seven stuff--at this point, I honestly care more about Vorik than her--this was a good episode for me. I liked the parts that focused on Torres a lot.

 

[froot]

I loved the visual of Voyager in Torres' visor at the end.

Love that scene, especially with the background score. I've always wanted to give whoever storyboarded that scene a medal.

I think Tom was talking slow so he could skirt around the issue of saying "I love you, too" back to Torres.

Season 4 is more ensemble than I remembered after re-watching it recently, but you'd best be prepared for quite a bit of Seven (thankfully the silver-flavored biosuit won't last forever.) Also, get your Torres fill during this season while you can, before the actress' pregenacy edges her out of the show a bit.

There is a good chunk of episodes throughout this season that I like very, very, very much. If you can manage to wade through a bunch of Seven to get to 'em, I hope you'll find them and like them too.

Anyone else find it funny that the Season 4 DVD menus have the theme from Scorpion instead of the show theme? It makes the menus SO dramatic. (And why did they release a CD of the score from Caretaker and not a CD with the score from Scorpion? I'd sell my right foot for that music.)

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I loved the visual of Voyager in Torres' visor at the end.

Love that scene, especially with the background score. I've always wanted to give whoever storyboarded that scene a medal.

Loved Torres and her REALLY bad day. And loved the fact that P/T finally starts to really moved forward this season.

As for the final visor scene.... makes me think of my fav Trek poster, with the Apollo Astronaut on the moon, looking up. We see the flag "waving" in the background, and in HIS visor we see reflected the Starship Enterprise 1701.

 

[Shatnertage]

^Torres' day reminds me of a kid's book called Big Rabbit's Bad Mood.

And I feel empathy for Torres, because I've just watched what might be the worst episode of Trek I've ever seen, appropriately entitled...

"Nemesis"

Make no bones about it--this is an awful episode, without even the "OMG!!! Lizard Janeway shagged Lizard Paris" freak-out factor to redeem it. I've long been an apologist for episodes that other people consider the "worst ever." I've said tons of nice stuff about "Spock's Brain," "Sub Rosa," "A Night in Sickbay," and even "Samaritan Snare" (fun if you turn it into a drinking game). But just five minutes into "Nemesis," I was ready to give up.

The problem is that for the tease and the first two acts, we're only on the planet with Chakotay. That worked well enough in "First Contact" (the TNG episode), where we were in the hospital with Riker.

Here it's agonizing. The Vori speak (oh, I'm sorry--give tellings) in an archaic English that manages to be both ponderous and annoying at the same time. And instead of being energized by the chance to do action hero stuff, Robert Beltran seems even lower-energy than usual. It's a total snooze-fest for about 20 minutes.

Then when we get on the ship, Neelix is somehow an expert about geopolitics in this system. How? We already got to the limits of his knowledge when we reached the Nekkid expanse (I know it's Nekrid, but to me it'll always be Nekkid). And then, as my wife pointed out, Kes just threw them 9,500 light years past that--about one-tenth the way across the galaxy. What gives?

Then Chakotay gives the "we settle things peacefully" speech early on, forgetting that he joined a terrorist group to free his homeland from invaders. Which he remembers later when it's time to give another speech.

There were some unintentionally funny parts. The curious costuming choice for the Defenders--most of the buffer ones had sleeveless uniforms--made me think of a certain scene from Kids in the Hall: Brain Candy (nsfw due to language, but pretty funny). And the episode might set a record for best double entendre, with "He sent me here to drill you, but you drilled me" followed by "We won't swallow it!"

Besides that, the episode was competently done, but incredibly boring. Even the Kragen(?) seemed to be redresses of Naussicans. The big reveal--that the Kragen were the ones working with Voyager--had some potential for drama. What if Janeway had unwittingly partnered with the bad guys? But no, we just got a preachy "propaganda is bad" message clubbed into our skulls.

That's where the episode really fails. I could deal with 20 minutes of boredom if it had a point, but the "big message" is so simplistic and so non-controversial that it's laughable. There's absolutely no moral complexity there. Obviously both species aren't native to that planet--someone belongs there, and someone else doesn't. This episode skirts that by just saying "propaganda is bad" and sailing off into next week.

And the whole set-up just makes no logical sense. With the attrition rate as high as it apparently is, why would you expend all of those resources to create a simulation (was the village a holodeck?) just to recruit one soldier? Instead you'd be doing mass hypnosis/drugs on batches of new recruits.

So is this the worst episode of Voyager? I haven't seen all of the episodes yet, but it's definitely in the conversation.

Right now my short list for worst VOY episode is;
"False Profits"
"Fair Trade"
"Elogium"
"Memorial"
"Threshold"
and, way ahead of all of them...
"Nemesis"

 

[T.D. Possum]

I've long been an apologist for episodes that other people consider the "worst ever." I've said tons of nice stuff about "Spock's Brain," "Sub Rosa," "A Night in Sickbay," and even "Samaritan Snare" (fun if you turn it into a drinking game). But just five minutes into "Nemesis," I was ready to give up.

Yep. I love all those "bad" eps. They may be dumb, but they are fun. "Nemesis". No. It was really exciting for about fifteen seconds when, as you said, it looked like Janeway might have partnered up with the bad guys. But overall, it was just boring. Definitely the most snooze worthy ep in Season Four. Possibly the most snooze worthy ep in the entire series, but already that train of thought is making my eyes glaze over, so I won't pursue it any further.

Looks like you have some good (or at least, more interesting) episodes coming up, though!

 

[Shatnertage]

^ Part of it is that Robert Beltran seems to be naturally sedate in Voyager, which works great when he's onscreen with Janeway, who's physically so dynamic even when she's standing still, or Torres, who's very high energy. He's even good with Tuvok, who's not exactly jumping all over the place, because it's like watching a glacier grind up against a cliff--lots of tension that might just explode.

But putting him together with the Defenders for the first half of the episode was just a bad decision. I'm amazed that no one on set saw that it wasn't working.

 

[Captrek]

The Vori speak (oh, I'm sorry--give tellings) in an archaic English that manages to be both ponderous and annoying at the same time.

Archaic? The fathers of fathers, now in the glorious way-after, gave tellings in this way in the long-ago?

 

[Captrek]

He's even good with Tuvok, who's not exactly jumping all over the place

Tuvok doesn’t waste any energy, but I think he projects a great deal of strength. Chakotay just seems like he needs a nap.

 

[froot]

He's even good with Tuvok, who's not exactly jumping all over the place

Tuvok doesn’t waste any energy, but I think he projects a great deal of strength. Chakotay just seems like he needs a nap.

Yeah, Vulcans are tough to act because they have to be interesting and emotionless. I think Tuvok does it really well - you can tell the guy has a major ego and dearly loves to spar with Chakotay. He just keeps his mouth shut until Chakotay gives him an opening.

Chakotay's always a little sleepy, and it's harder to see the Angry Warrior unless he's openly fighting with someone. I've always thought this was an acting problem much more than it was a writing problem, but I know there's been about a gazillion threads on the topic already.

Anyway, yeah, I watched Nemesis from start to finish once and I was all kinds of confused. They didn't even explain what the heck Chakotay was even being brainwashed with. I know it was a combination of things, but then how could Tuvok see the simulation as well at the end?

And I'm glad someone else thought "Nausicaans" when they saw the Kragen

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Sigh.

I liked it.

I really like the moral at the end.


CHAKOTAY: If you'll excuse me, Captain. (Runs out of sickbay, away from the kragen ambassador)

[Corridor]

(Janeway runs after him)

JANEWAY: Chakotay?
CHAKOTAY: I wish it were as easy to stop hating as it was to start.