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Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

I've yet to find my fav promo from (?) season 3... the "sh*t is hitting the fan, the bridge is darkened, red alert lights blazing, we see Borg cubes on the view screen, and the voice over says something like... "sometimes you just need a "bitch" to get you out of trouble".

The camera lingers on Janeway, sittng in her command chair, as the voice "hops" over the actual word, "bitch".

:klingon:

Believe it or not, I LOVED it!

:guffaw:
 
That was a hilarious promo, froot. Thanks for sharing it. When I have a few hours to waste, I'm going to check more out. I can tell it's going to be addictive.

So I'm on to...

"Worst Case Scenario"


I feel like I say this a lot: holodeck episodes are my least favorite type of episode. Episodes where a holodeck malfunction/security protocols being disengaged are a plot point are, I think, the worst. But lately I've been finding a ton of holodeck episodes that I love.

Of course "Hollow PUrsuits" is the mother of all great holodeck episodes, with "A Fistful of Datas" up there, too. Just this week I had "Real Life." I'm sure there are quite a few more great VOY holodeck stories that I've already seen--I'm just unable to think of them right now.

I had no idea of what to expect going in, and I was really blown away. It took a while to figure out just what was going on. At first, I thought, "dream sequence." Then, I thought "alternate time flashback." When Paris broke in with "computer, freeze program," it all made sense.

There was so much good in this one I don't know where to start. One of the things that I liked about it the best was the way the "holonovel" reflected Tuvok's own prejudices: Chakotay's only too eager to stab everyone in the back, and Neelix is a gutless turncoat. I'm surprised he let Paris be a good guy in this. Sometimes it was subtle--the way Kes is a total innocent--but it's pretty clear that this is the crew as Tuvok thought of them early on.

Once I knew it was a holonovel I was pretty sure Tuvok was the author--mostly from those details, but also because it was all about him. The first thing Chipotle says to the "ensign" is how awful Tuvok is. Another great touch that shows Tuvok's egocentrism, hidden beneath a veneer of logic. Though I don't know how anyone, holocharacter or not, wouldn't want to spend 70 years with Tuvok.

The return of Seska was another brilliant move. She's one of my favorite Trek villains, and she's in great form here. I love how, when she takes over the program, she's in charge of everything--obviously how she thought of herself while with the Maquis, and what she showed on Cullah's ship.

Tuvok's continuing claim to authorship is also prideful, though naturally hidden behind that Vulcan logic. I loved the meta stuff of authorship when Neelix and the Doctor were peppering the two with "suggestions."

This was just a great episode--a whole lot of fun, and even the holodeck malfunction was OK.

What a great run of stories--I think everything from "Before and After" to this one has been 5 star material. The quality was uneven earlier in the season, but they really picked it up.

Looking forward to Scorpion, since I've heard a lot about it but have never seen it.
 
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Could not agree with you more on this one. I'll add to that - I liked the way Janeway talked about the crew needing to start their own culture. We saw little bits of that here and there throughout the series, but I would have welcomed a lot more of it.
 
It was a good episode, and I loved how they brought Seska back without using the usual time travel, alternate reality stuff. She sure was a really smart villain. I was always curious, though, why Tuvok never deleted the holonovel? Maybe he was, and would always be, suspicious of the Maquis? Veddy interesting.

I really like how indepth you think about these things. I love how you psycho-analyze Tuvok through his work on the characters. When I first watched Voyager, I was really young and never really understood/paid attention well enough to let the impact of the episode wash over me. Now that I've rewatched them, I actually felt like I was that little girl all over again and not an adult rewatching the episodes. Not sure if that makes much sense, but I appreciate your reviews of the episodes, James T. Chanukah, they make my day :)

"Scorpion I & II" are probably my favorite episodes, and if I'm wrong, then definately my favorite two-parter. Hope you like them!!
 
It was a good episode, and I loved how they brought Seska back without using the usual time travel, alternate reality stuff. She sure was a really smart villain. I was always curious, though, why Tuvok never deleted the holonovel? Maybe he was, and would always be, suspicious of the Maquis? Veddy interesting.

Tuvok did attempt to delete his "holonovel," but they dug up some sort of backup of it by accident while doing routine maintenance. Or something like that. It's been a bit since I've seen this one.

As for the review, amen - I'd want to spend 70 years with Tuvok, too!

Definitely curious to see what you'll think of Scorpion.
 
I loved the fact that it wasn't "just" Seska... but the Bajoran version of Seska that came back.

Can I get a "Hell YEAH!"

I also liked the part where Janeway teased the crew about needing to finish the program so they could find out if "Captain Janeway" retakes the ship... and Chakotay requests NOT to be the bad guy next time around.
 
Tuvok did attempt to delete his "holonovel," but they dug up some sort of backup of it by accident while doing routine maintenance. Or something like that. It's been a bit since I've seen this one.

As for the review, amen - I'd want to spend 70 years with Tuvok, too!

Ooohh.. It's been a while since I've seen the eppie, too. Maybe I should catch up on my Voyager episodes over Christmas break.. That'd probably be a wonderful idea!

I too, would love to spend 70 years with Tuvok (and if Janeway was with, I think I'd be content with them for eternity!)
 
I'm on to a new episode now. The long-awaited...

"Scorpion, Part I"

Is this the shortest tease in VOY history? Effective, though it doesn't dislodge ENT: Impulse as my favorite micro-tease (watch all 18 seconds after this 30-second commercial here). No way you're not sitting through the credits to find out what happens next there.

Back to "Scorpion." It's paced a little slower than I thought it would be. The Leonardo scenes were well-done, and John Rhys-Davies was wonderful, but I thought they dragged the show down--we didn't see Picard toddling off to the holodeck to do Shakespeare in BoBW, after all.

There's super-creepy stuff here, including Kes's vision of the Borg salad sculpture--easily one of the most disturbing visuals I've see on VOY (right up there with Durst's face transplant). Later, when we see that vision, it's just as bad. Thank God we didn't hear it making any noise. [shudder]

When my 2.5 year old saw Species 8472 make their debut, she said, "It's a dinosaur!" I didn't explain the 100X strength DNA to her. And there was a funny moment when I tried to act out what the Species 8472 guy looked like to my wife, who had left the room. For some reason I stuck my tongue out and whipped my head around real fast, like I was going to pounce. She said I looked like a puppy. So don't pick me for your partner for VOY Charades.

Despite the return of the Borg and the introduction of Species 8472, this is really Janeway's episode. And I've got to separate out my reaction to Kate Mulgrew as an actress vs. Kathryn Janeway as a character.

First, despite me saying ten posts ago that I'm "agnostic" on J/C, their exchange at the beginning really made me wonder. The way he looks at her, I think he's obviously in love with her. I'm not so sure about her, though: it's not that I think she's using Chakotay, but she's clearly glad to have him to lean on...but she doesn't want to commit to anything more. Although the "three years ago I didn't know your name..." line was kind of crossing the line.

(After this scene, I had an amusing image: Chakotay getting drunk and singing a holo-karaoke version of Biz Markie, "Just a Friend.")

Kate Mulgrew is incredible in this. She's just so full of purpose and energy. It makes me think that Janeway is a great wartime captain. I'm not going to compare her to Shatner (originated the starship captain) or Sir Patrick (...because he's Sir Patrick) but she definitely got the captain thing way better than Scott Bakula. Since I'm an ENT fan, I'm not damning with faint praise, either. She was incredible in this.

But what about Captain Janeway? Is this the moment that Janeway betrays her Federation ideals? That's the charge that I've seen around here before. Viscerally, I thought the idea of an alliance with the Borg was a bad one, like making an alliance with a hurricane: it's just impossible.

I thought that Janeway was guilty of what Spock would call two-dimensional thinking. You can't go around Borg space, but can you go under it or over it? Of course, the writers don't see space in three dimensions in Trek, though.

Clearly, whatever choice Janeway makes, she's going to upset the balance of power...but why choose sides? Why not develop the 8472-killer, than carve a path through the middle of the Northwest passage, insulated from the Borg? Could that have worked?

I thought Chakotay was respectful in the way he voiced his reservations, and they were definitely strong points. Since the Borg had no concept of a cooperation, how do you cooperate with them? They just don't see the world that way.

So I'm not sold on Janeway's course of action here. That doesn't mean I think she's a bad captain: I disagree with lots of things all of the captains have done.

In the end, it was a suspenseful episode with a few down spots, and I'm profoundly ambivalent about the Captain's decision.

I wish I didn't have to wait for the season 4, disc 1 to arrive so I can find out how it ends (Sorry to those of you who watched it for the first time on TV, and had to wait months!).
 
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I am not keen on Janeway's choice in this episode myself. I also think Chakotay shouldn't have stood for her teary-eyed routine in the briefing room! It could very well have been that the Borg alliance was the only thing they could have possibly done next to settling on some planet - but Janeway really should have backed off and given it some thought, as Chakotay suggested. Perhaps scout around a bit, see what was up in the area. Infinity's Prism is a good TrekLit book that covers the "what-ifs" of this story.

I assume Borg space is simply massive in all three dimensions - going around any possible way is probably going to take a heck of a long time.

Also, LOL at your VOY charades! There's a visual :)
 
I'm not sure how I feel about the choices Captain Janeway made in this episode, but I can understand why she did it. She felt like it was the only way, and she's known for taking risks. Sure, she didn't really consider Chakotay's plan, or any other plan for that matter, but that's a flaw in the Janeway character. She needs to be in control. But, you can't deny she's one hell of a captain.

All in all, the second part is my favorite of the two.
 
First, despite me saying ten posts ago that I'm "agnostic" on J/C, their exchange at the beginning really made me wonder. The way he looks at her, I think he's obviously in love with her. I'm not so sure about her, though: it's not that I think she's using Chakotay, but she's clearly glad to have him to lean on...but she doesn't want to commit to anything more. Although the "three years ago I didn't know your name..." line was kind of crossing the line.

Wait until you see their interaction at the end of the ep. :bolian:

(No Scorpion spoilers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkFayt5sVos
(How can anyone look at Janeway next to a fireplace and wonder "if" she's sexy? :rolleyes: )

I agree with Froot, BORG space is massive in all directions... and the northwest passage is probably on the wrong side given the fact that Voyager is already encountering 8472.

(You had wondered re: using the weapon to traverse the 8472 territory... not helpful if their territory is going in the opposite direction.)

The one thing that strikes me about the "what if" options, is Janeway and crew are now just too damn close to BORG territory to be safe. Even if she decided to abandon her trip home, where could she settle her valiant crew that they or their immediate descendents wouldn't become fodder for the BORG assmilation program. As scary as this option was, perhaps it was the best of a bunch of bad scenarios.
 
(No Scorpion spoilers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkFayt5sVos
(How can anyone look at Janeway next to a fireplace and wonder "if" she's sexy? :rolleyes: )


:adore: :adore:

-insert blissful, dramatic sigh here-

Oh, right.. -ahem-... we're supposed to be talking about "Endgame"...

Or "Scorpion".. but what does it matter? :lol:

Great stonework on that "fireplace", don't ya think? :devil:

See how flustered you got me? And yeah.. the stonework was spectacular.. -cough- ;)
 
<Majel Barret voice> And now, the conclusion of...</Majel Barret Voice>

Scorpion, Part II

Does anyone else consider this VOY's Best of Both Worlds? The comparison seems apt. Just thought I'd throw that out there to start.

Clever way of getting 7 and her cohorts away from the cube and onto the V. But it seemed like that was a pretty easy way of destroying the 8372 bioships--why weren't they ramming cubes into them before, if that's all it took?

And I find the way that Janeway says "Species 8472" oddly grating. It's the way she pauses slightly between each number, like she's reading the Pick 4 results ("Tonight's winning number...8...4...7...2.") I remember other people saying it this way, too.

I liked that Chakotay had to make a tough decision. I didn't like that Janeway was miraculously healed. It might have worked better if the Doctor was mystified as to why she recovered, and chalked it up to the mysterious effects of fluidic space.

On the whole, though, it was a great episode. Good battle scenes, great tensions, and the big J/C reconciliation at the end.

The V gets 7 but doesn't really ally itself with the Borg after all. Sets up where they're going. Originally, I thought that Kes got written out in this, but thanks to watching the "Kes time capsule' feature on season 3, disc 7, so I guess she leaves in the next episode, and solves the problem of them and Borg space.

Since it's been two days since I've seen the episode, I'm not as sharp with my recall as I usually am...but if anyone wants to jog my memory, I'm definitely eager to discuss it more.
 
And the comparisons between TNG and VOY start. Lol.

I noticed the whole season 3 finale and season 4 premiere simiarities a year ago. It happens again in a finale later on.

Scorpion part II was great. It's one of the only season 4 episodes that I can stand Seven in. The only thing that annoys me about her is she's a Borg, which have already been showcased in total six episodes(I think) and one movie, and she uses the term "I"
"I speak for the Borg." I'm postitive that unless you are the Queen you use words like "we" "our" "us" if you are a Drone.
 
I'm ashamed to say that I've never seen TWoK. I've only seen the Search for Spock. Of the original movies. I've seen the new one and all of TNG's.

Yeah, her appearance was great. Chakotay trying to decompress her was even better and remains to be sweeter everytime I watch this episode. Lol.
 
One of my favorite scenes in the series is when Seven gives Chakotay that Borg Pride speech in the Ready Room. It's just all kinds of awesome.

I tend to like Borg!Seven and MostlyBorg!Seven more than the more human version. For one, she's not in the silly spandex, and two, she seems far scarier and intimidating. Next to the BQ, she's the only Borg that doesn't look like she wandered out of the 1980s and got lost. I know the suit was probably rather cruel to wear, but it would have been kind of neat if she had been wearing that for a few episodes longer than she did.

And, yes, this is VOY's Best of Both Worlds. In fact, during that UPN TV special several years back, I think BoBW and Scorpion were both considered the best episodes of their respective series.
 
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