Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

[Shatnertage]

^ (mairbeariepie's post)

Interesting. Any reason why? Was it part of a Trek anniversary or anything?

And with the Borg-hunting, at first I thought this was going to be a Mirror Universe story or something, particularly with the title being "Dark Frontier."

 

[HoneyBLilly]

^ (mairbeariepie's post)

Interesting. Any reason why? Was it part of a Trek anniversary or anything?

And with the Borg-hunting, at first I thought this was going to be a Mirror Universe story or something, particularly with the title being "Dark Frontier."

No. It was just advertised as the "Voyager movie" I'll look for the preview. It aired way after the thirty-second anniversary of Trek. It was just Voyager's movie I guess. The Killing Game was also supposed to be aired like that.

There's an episode in the seventh that was aired the same way, besides the finale.

And Voyager in the MU couldn't really work out. As DS9 showed Tuvok is in the Alpha Quadrant so if it were in the MU in the Delta Quadrant they would not have a mirror-Tuvok there.

Plus Living Witnesswas the kind of "MU" episode for Voyager. Plus I don't think Braga wanted to do one. Sadly. It could have been good.

 

[Shatnertage]

Some other funnies that I momentarily forgot:

What was the deal with the holographic dude wearing the Speedo? Did he win a contest to be on Voyager or something and this is how they shoe-horned him in?

When the Queen said that Seven was the only Borg to regain individuality so they wanted her back, my wife asked, "Why didn't they want Captain Picard back?"

My answer: "Because Patrick Stewart had movies to make."

And I just realized how uncomfortable Seven's regeneration alcove is. Not only does she have to stand while she's sleeping, she doesn't even have anything to lean on.

 

[froot]

^ (mairbeariepie's post)

Interesting. Any reason why? Was it part of a Trek anniversary or anything?

I recall the UPN promos billing it as a movie, not as an "episode." Not sure why they did it, but this isn't the only feature-length VOY episode they did outside of the pilot and finale.

Anyways, all the feature-length Voyager episodes were split into two parts for re-runs, often with scenes cut.

This was really annoying, BTW, back before the DVDs came out. I remember you said were watching several episodes on Spike in the beginning - if you saw "Caretaker" on TV, you probably didn't get to see the episode in its entirety.

As for the beginning - yeah, it was a bit jarring they decided to find themselves a transwarp coil. I think if I had that map data, I would have used it to try and avoid the Borgies floating around.

To be fair, they weren't intending to actually blow up that ship in the beginning, even though it attacked them first. And they were trying to cause as little damage as possible while getting the coil.

But, yeah, still. I probably would have left that ol' hornets' nest alone.

They weren't in Borg space initially (until they flew the Delta Flyer out there,) but the transwarp allows the Borg to fly around making messes wherever they want.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Here's the episode trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhDpnzNkSPQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I loved Dark Frontier (except the playing with the combadge crap) , but then again I love Janeway and Seven.

The broadcast TV version of the ep was "tainted" by the editors. Season 5 was when TPTB dropped their stories to 42 minutes, and so they started lopping 3-4 min from the finished product. Eps shown early in the season "first run" were longer than the repeats later in the season. DF was one that was lopped before the first run.

The scenes of Harry and Tom laughing with Neelix in the messhall over the death of the drones... as Seven walks by, was one such deleted scene. Janeway telling Belanna to stay away from Seven's personal logs was another.

How do I know?

I'd watch my tapes until they fell apart, and then years later while brushing my teeth one morn... the cable station showing reruns at 6 am started that messhall scene I'd NEVER HEARD BEFORE and I came running out of the bathroom to see what they heck was going on!

Seeing the Janeway/B'Elanna scene also made their interactions on the bridge when Janeway is giving out "assignments" more understandable. (To be fair??? TPTB used the audio of B'Elanna and Janeway in their adverts for the program)

Things I liked about DF was how much foreshadowing we saw earlier in the season. Remember their discussion during "Latent Image"?

SEVEN: When you separated me from the Collective I was an unknown risk to your crew, yet you kept me on board. You allowed me to evolve into an individual.
JANEWAY: You're a human being. He's a hologram.
SEVEN: And you allowed that hologram to evolve as well, to exceed his original programming and yet, now you choose to abandon him.
JANEWAY: Objection noted. Good night.
SEVEN: It is unsettling. You say that I am a human being and yet, I am also Borg. Part of me not unlike your replicator, not unlike the Doctor. Will you one day choose to abandon me as well? I have always looked to you as my example, my guide to humanity. Perhaps I've been mistaken. Good night.

Janeway is Captain... and as such she will not leave "a member of her crew behind". But Janeway is much more, to Seven... and you see it in her face, and hear it in her voice when the BORG Queen is backing her up... trying to force her to rejoin the collective voluntarily...

SEVEN: (Defiant and yet obviously scared!) I am Annika Hansen. Human.
QUEEN: (Sickly sweet) I remember Annika. Does she remember us? She wasn't afraid, why are you?
SEVEN: You attacked us. You murdered my family.
QUEEN: We did no such thing. We gave them perfection.
SEVEN: (Sees her Borgified father walk forward) Papa?
QUEEN: Your family's here. You're here. Be one with us again.
JANEWAY [OC]: (Suddenly from nowhere, a voice comes over her cranial implant's interplexing beacon) Seven of Nine, we're searching for you. Try to hang on.
SEVEN: (Seven is freaking shocked out of her ever loving mind!) Captain?
QUEEN: (SOMEONE's PISSED!) What did you say?
SEVEN: (Back to being scared, but still quietly defiant.) Nothing.
QUEEN: (Grabs her by the face, as if to read any messages recently downloaded into Seven's psyche before she spits out...) Janeway.

Make that BAMF JANEWAY to you, you impotent excuse for a freaking QUEEN!

But the best scene... is when we see Mama come for her lost chick, or the Good Shepard come for her lost sheep. Seven has tried to strike her "original" foster mother but the Queen has stopped her attack as easily as you would any "small" child's attempt.

And we hear THAT voice come from the wilderness.

JANEWAY: Don't listen to her, Seven. She's irrelevant. Call them off or I'll destroy you.
QUEEN: Your weapons are useless.
JANEWAY: Don't be so sure. My tactical officer is disabling the shields around this room. Tom, status.
PARIS [OC]: We've targeted the chamber, Captain.
JANEWAY: Let her go, or I'll give the order to fire.
QUEEN: You would be destroyed as well, along with your crewman.
JANEWAY: Better than being one of you. Tom, high-yield torpedoes, full spread. Fire on my command.

Loved the ep. Loved how so often we see scenes repeated over and over, as the Queen tries to seduce Seven using words Janeway has already used. But there's a difference between living those words and simply parroting them, it has to do with honesty and emotion, two things the BORG Queen is incapable of, and which our Auburn Queen has in spades.

SEVEN: During my time at Unimatrix one I acquired a vast amount of knowledge. It may prove useful in our future encounters with the Borg. I am downloading it into Voyager's database. The Borg believed I was unique, that I understood humanity. They were obviously mistaken.
JANEWAY: How so?
SEVEN: I betrayed the crew of Voyager, threatened you with assimilation. I did not expect you to return for me.
JANEWAY: Looks like you still have a few things to learn. Time to regenerate.
SEVEN: When I am finished.
JANEWAY: No, now. That's an order.
SEVEN: Yes, Captain.
JANEWAY: Sweet dreams.

 

[Markira]

JANEWAY: Looks like you still have a few things to learn. Time to regenerate.
SEVEN: When I am finished.
JANEWAY: No, now. That's an order.
SEVEN: Yes, Captain.
JANEWAY: Sweet dreams.

I LOVE Mama Janeway. I feel like that's when I relate to Janeway the best. I have to say that I'm still not clear on why she decided to take Seven on as a project, or a child-substitute, but scenes between the two of them can sometimes feel very much like a mother-daughter battle. I know I had conversations with my own mother as I was trying to assert my independence that progressed similarly to Janeway-Seven moments.

I frequently comment to my husband that Seven is acting like a teenager. She is still learning her role in her "society", as she is set free to try her own wings but is still tied to Janeway as her mentor. I like to see her challenge Janeway when she asks her just how "grown-up" she's allowed to be, even while she makes the classic childish mistake of running before she learns to walk.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

JANEWAY: Looks like you still have a few things to learn. Time to regenerate.
SEVEN: When I am finished.
JANEWAY: No, now. That's an order.
SEVEN: Yes, Captain.
JANEWAY: Sweet dreams.

I LOVE Mama Janeway. I feel like that's when I relate to Janeway the best. I have to say that I'm still not clear on why she decided to take Seven on as a project, or a child-substitute, but scenes between the two of them can sometimes feel very much like a mother-daughter battle. I know I had conversations with my own mother as I was trying to assert my independence that progressed similarly to Janeway-Seven moments.

I frequently comment to my husband that Seven is acting like a teenager. She is still learning her role in her "society", as she is set free to try her own wings but is still tied to Janeway as her mentor. I like to see her challenge Janeway when she asks her just how "grown-up" she's allowed to be, even while she makes the classic childish mistake of running before she learns to walk.

If I may... I think she took her on as a project the moment she disconnected her from the BORG and decided NOT to kill her.

The "child substitute" thing is something she's done with other junior members of her senior staff, its just so much more obvious with Seven because she's needed Janeway "the most"... as she herself said in Season 7's "......."

Spoiler: text on button

From "Imperfection"

SEVEN: Every person on this list died under your command. You accepted their deaths, but I don't believe you'll accept mine.
JANEWAY: That's presumptuous.
SEVEN: I'm not being egotistical. On the contrary, I'm trying to make a point.
JANEWAY: Which is? SEVEN: All of these crew members came to Voyager with unique personalities, but I've required your constant assistance to develop my individuality.
JANEWAY: And you've come a long way.
SEVEN: But not far enough. I've disappointed you. You feel your task is incomplete. That's why my death will be difficult for you to accept.
JANEWAY: Is that what you think? That you haven't lived up to my expectations?
SEVEN: Clearly I haven't but I want you to know that the failure has been mine, not yours.
JANEWAY: You haven't failed, Seven. You've exceeded my expectations. You've become an individual, an extraordinary individual. If I'm having trouble accepting your condition it's only because I don't want to lose a friend.

And... for those people who can't see it... Janeway isn't the only foster family Seven has on board Voyager.

She also has a foster sister.

TORRES: (Walks up to engineering's second story computer station) He's looking for you. The Doctor, I ran into him in the corridor. He's about thirty seconds away from calling a ship-wide alert.
SEVEN: Are you going to tell him where I am?
TORRES: No. I know what it's like to be stuck in Sickbay. I've escaped the Doctor myself once or twice.
SEVEN: Thank you.
TORRES: Any time.
SEVEN: Lieutenant. When you die, do you believe your spirit will go to Sto-Vo-Kor?
TORRES: You shouldn't be thinking about dying.
SEVEN: According to the Doctor's simulations any attempt to adapt the salvaged node will fail. Sto-Vo-Kor, Lieutenant. Do you believe you'll go there?
TORRES: I guess it all depends on how honourable my death is.
SEVEN: But you do believe there's something after death?
TORRES: I hope so. What about you? SEVEN: The Borg have no concept of an afterlife. However, when a drone is deactivated, its memories continue to reside in the Collective's consciousness. As long as the hive exists, so will the part of that drone.
TORRES: You don't seem to take much comfort in that.
SEVEN: My link to the Collective has been severed for nearly four years. If I die, everything that I've accomplished in that time, everything I achieved as an individual, will be lost. My memories, my experiences. It will be as if they, as if I never existed.
TORRES: I think you're a little more memorable than you're giving yourself credit for. You don't need the Collective to validate your existence. You've made an impact on every member of this crew. That's your legacy.
EMH: There you are. I should have known she'd be the one to harbour a fugitive.
TORRES: (Torres stands up to place herself between Seven and the EMH) We difficult patients need to stick together.
EMH: I want you to return to Sickbay immediately.
SEVEN: (Looking down upon the EMH on the first floor, as she stands with B'Elanna) Have you devised a new treatment?
EMH: Not yet.
SEVEN: Then it's best that I don't distract you from finding one.
EMH: Seven, if you continue to exert yourself your condition will only deteriorate more rapidly. Is that what you want?
SEVEN: What I want is to be useful.
TORRES: I really could use her help. I promise not to let her overdo it.
EMH: (Tosses something to Seven) You can stay, provided you wear this cortical monitor.
SEVEN: (To B'Elanna) Thank you.

 

[T.D. Possum]

I'd watch my tapes until they fell apart, and then years later while brushing my teeth one morn... the cable station showing reruns at 6 am started that messhall scene I'd NEVER HEARD BEFORE and I came running out of the bathroom to see what they heck was going on!

You are an excellent role model for the whippersnappers. I mean that!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

"You win this round, possum."

 

[T.D. Possum]

"You win this round, possum."

 

[Markira]

JanewayRulz, thanks for your reply, but I am going to skip the season 7 spoiler for now (I'm only on season 6, truly appreciate the spoiler tag!!!). I agree that Janeway decided to take on Seven when she separated her from the Borg and decided not to kill her, but I guess her motivation is what escapes me. Is it guilt? A sense of moral obligation to a fellow human? Boredom because she can't consummate her burning desire for Chakotay? Maybe it's all 3.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

JanewayRulz, thanks for your reply, but I am going to skip the season 7 spoiler for now (I'm only on season 6, truly appreciate the spoiler tag!!!). I agree that Janeway decided to take on Seven when she separated her from the Borg and decided not to kill her, but I guess her motivation is what escapes me. Is it guilt? A sense of moral obligation to a fellow human? Boredom because she can't consummate her burning desire for Chakotay? Maybe it's all 3.

It's guilt for being "so fortunate".

Janeway's parents loved her fiercely and showered her with everything she needed to be a confident Officer and Gentlewoman.

Janeway is just giving back; to Tom, to B'Elanna, to Harry, and most especially... to Seven.

 

[exodus]

JanewayRulz, thanks for your reply, but I am going to skip the season 7 spoiler for now (I'm only on season 6, truly appreciate the spoiler tag!!!). I agree that Janeway decided to take on Seven when she separated her from the Borg and decided not to kill her, but I guess her motivation is what escapes me. Is it guilt? A sense of moral obligation to a fellow human? Boredom because she can't consummate her burning desire for Chakotay? Maybe it's all 3.

Think of it as Ripley & Newt.
Janeway was getting the point where she knew she was getting to old to start a family of her own. Considering that she might be facing the fact that the rest of her life would be spent in the DQ, Seven was Janeways last chance to have what came close to a daughter of her own. I think it also goes back to Janeways promise to herself at the start of "Caretaker": "I must take the time to get to know this crew." By the finale, the senior staff was more than just her crew, they became her family.

 

[Shatnertage]

It is very appropriate that I've got an awful cold and/or fever as I write about...

"The Disease"

We open with a tease that I've got to suspect had Garrett Wang kissing the script.

When we're back from the credits and back to the room of passion, the camera does a relatively slow pan up a toned pair of legs lying on the bed.

"Hey," I volunteer in perfect time. "Harry's got a great pair of le...oh," as we see it was the chick.

We've already found out that the Varro don't like outsiders, and that they've got a massive generational ship. What gets me is when Janeway says Voyager might be traveling for "generations" as well.

Originally, they were about 70 years from home. Then Kes threw them 10 years closer. Then they somehow got about 10 years closer somewhere in season 4/5 (the details are hazy). In the last episode the Borg transwarp conduit got them 20 years closer. So 5 years in, they have about 30 years to go without hitting any more shortcuts (I think). That's hardly "generations." Barring accidents, everyone who we've seen on the ship should be alive to see it. You think there'd be more of a sense of "hey, we're half-way there," but instead it's still just "we're generations from home."

I wonder if they break out the blue cake every time they knock a decade off the trip?

Back to the episode. Harry almost starts talking dirty via a comm link while Tuvok's tracing his transmission. I can't wait to see everyone's face when his dirty talk is suddenly broadcast on the bridge, but Tom saves his buddy.


Then, while working with Seven, Harry's skin starts glowing, and Seven, for whom tact is apparently not a human virtue to study, marches him to sickbay. This is after he asks her about love. Why, I've got no idea.

"Don't they have patient confidentiality in the future?" I ask as Seven hovers around with her curiosity piqued as Harry discusses his condition with his physician. Then he tells her to leave, and she acts like he's the bad guy.


So Harry tells the Doctor, and the Doctor's going to tell Janeway and have Tal come in for some scans, too.

Here's where I have a major disagreement with the captain. She upbraids Harry for hooking up with Tal, saying that protocols say that before you do that kind of thing, your CO and CMO have to sign off on it.

Bullshit.

No one raised any objections when Harry himself went off to be with the life-sucking vampire women, who presumably wanted to more than listen to a Harry Kim clarinet recital. Even the holographic doctor's had sex (it's mentioned onscreen and is therefore canon) without jumping through any hoops. Chakotay didn't get any approval before getting intimate with a semi-Borg collective in "Unity.' And just recently, the captain herself made out with an alien in the shuttlebay, and he turned out to be a bad guy.

So I'm just not buying that this is such a tremendous breach of protocol.

She places an official reprimand on his record. With busting Tom down to ensign, she's really meting out punishment left and right these days.

Then Harry gives a Captain Kirk Speech. Or tries to. It's really painful to listen to. I'll reproduce it here to refresh your memory:

"Did your skin ever flush when you were near another person? Did your stomach ever feel like someone hollowed it out with a knife when you were apart? Did your throat ever swell when you realized it was over? Seven of Nine, Seven of Nine told me love's like a disease! Well, maybe it is pheromones, endorphins, chemicals in our blood, changing our responses, physical discomfort but any way you look at it, it's still love."

Ouch.

Then Harry's playing bad boy, so he and Tal sneak away in a shuttle before Tuvok tracks them down.

It turns out Tal's responsible for the virus thingy that's causing the microfractures, and ultimately the ship breaks up. Harry and Tal say their goodbyes (which was going to happen anyway, I guess, so I don't really know what all the angst was about). I guess with the Varro being broken up Tal could have joined Voyager (stranger things have happened), but that's not in the cards.

Then we get Janeway telling Harry that he's her little lost duckling (more or less), and Harry saying he's all grown up.

Seven gets the last word, with something I desperately want to see on a Valentine's Day card:

"Love is not a disease. Get well soon."

 

[T.D. Possum]

This episode made me laugh out loud, but, I wasn't laughing "with" it.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I really hate that episode.

 

[exodus]

I can't tell, did the OP like the ep. or not?

I'm guessing the issue of interspecies sex with the holographic doctor isn't an issue due to the holodecks/suites being used by the crew(s) of Starships for that exact reason. There also is no threat of getting or giving an STD or impregnating a hologram. So, no protocol on that is on record.


The Borg woman was also human, not another species. That makes all the difference in protocol. The rule was no "inter-species" sexual relationships without approval.
All Janeway did was kiss Kashyyh, she didn't have sex with him.
In "Favorite Son" Harry's DNA read as one of their species, not human.
So there was no reason to bring up that rule of protocol again.

Sorry Shatenrage but you're remembering details incorrectly.

However, I think the most "interesting" revelation of this ep. is to find out that Harry might be a wuss personal but that he's a tiger in the bedroom. I guess PEOPLE magazine was on to something.

 

[Shatnertage]

^ At the very least, she was part-human by the time she met Chakotay.

And "just kissing" is still physical contact; for all we know other species have much worse STD-like stuff in their saliva than we've got in...other fluids.

And it's BS because we've never heard of it before. I'm not usually a canonista, but one of the constants throughout the show has been Starfleet personnel getting intimate with aliens. We've never seen any paperwork before.

In fact, I wonder what the application looks like.

I kind of liked the episode, just because it was so outrageously funny.

 

[exodus]

^ At the very least, she was part-human by the time she met Chakotay.

And "just kissing" is still physical contact; for all we know other species have much worse STD-like stuff in their saliva than we've got in...other fluids.

And it's BS because we've never heard of it before. I'm not usually a canonista, but one of the constants throughout the show has been Starfleet personnel getting intimate with aliens. We've never seen any paperwork before.

In fact, I wonder what the application looks like.

I kind of liked the episode, just because it was so outrageously funny.

You can also catch a cold shaking hands.

Seriously.
Didn't they mention that Worf & Dax had to under go DNA resequencing to have children on DS9? Honestly, we've never heard of contraception in Trek before either until it was mention that Sisko was using it on DS9. Plus after Kirk, has any of the crew of any of the past show ever has sex with a species thast wasn't part of the Federation? I would asume all or most species within the Federation have already been approved & vaccinated. So this rule of protocol might never had to be mentioned before due to none of the other species we've seen in the AQ are "foreign".