Another Lit Wish List Thread

[Kertrats47]

It's not like there isn't precedent for accidentally screwing up some dialog to give a wrong fact or two. Remember the Admiral from DS9's "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" referring to the Eugenics Wars as having happened "200 years ago"? Or any number of other small errors? A government can't be an armada. Obviously, a fleet can. Mistakes happen! Let's just roll with it.

 

[Sci]

Or that he meant exactly what he wrote

Just as you meant that someone named Abrahms was the director of 2009's Star Trek? After all, that's exactly what you wrote.

 

[DrBashir]

Or that he meant exactly what he wrote

Just as you meant that someone named Abrahms was the director of 2009's Star Trek? After all, that's exactly what you wrote.

Yes indeed. After all I was writing a script for a $150 million movie at the time.

It`s sad that you can`t just accept it when things change. You`ve got to keep Trek exactly as it was. J.J.`s in charge now and if he say`s the Federation is an armada whell then, it`s an armada.

 

[JD]

Not according to Abrahms.

Who's Abrahms? I've never heard of this person.

I have heard of someone named J.J. Abrams, who directed the 2009 Star Trek film. But since you're so insistent that we cannot simply decide that Abrams made a mistake by having Pike call the Federation an "armada" rather than Starfleet, I can only conclude that I therefore should not decide that you made a mistake by mentioning someone named "Abrahms" rather than J.J. Abrams.

Yes, you're entirely correct because someone getting one letter wrong in a name on an internet message board should carry exactly the same weight as the producer/director/script tweaker of a $150 million dollar movie adding a line in post production that is intended to clarify the story of said movie. I'm sure J.J. just jotted it off and when it was pointed out that it didn't make any sense just shrugged his shoulders and said "Who cares? It's not like it HAS to make sense anyway. It's just a multi-million dollar movie. It's not like we actually have to put any sort of effort into making sure we're doing our best here."

Yeah, that must be it...

Or perhaps it was added at the last minute and by the time someone noticed it, time had run out to fix the line. It's been known to happen from time to time. I just find it alot more likely that someone screwed up and ran out of time to fix it, than I do that they purposefully put something in the movie that doesn't make sense.

 

[DrBashir]

Whatever works for you. You can have your own person canon that doen`t contain the things you don`t agree with. It`s not like there`s going to be a quiz on this or anything.

 

[Sci]

Or that he meant exactly what he wrote

Just as you meant that someone named Abrahms was the director of 2009's Star Trek? After all, that's exactly what you wrote.

Yes indeed. After all I was writing a script for a $150 million movie at the time.

The size and importance of an endeavor does not mean that mistakes do not happen, and citing the film's budget as though that means anything is a logical fallacy.

It`s sad that you can`t just accept it when things change. You`ve got to keep Trek exactly as it was.

Actually, I think ST09 injected quite a bit of wonderful change. The characters finally came alive after years of Bermanite two dimensionality. And I'm even open to the idea that maybe Vulcan isn't a Federation world in the continuity of ST09 anymore -- that would nicely explain why Sarek is serving as Vulcan Ambassador to Earth, why there doesn't seem to be a Starfleet presence on or near Vulcan, and would be plausible if the Federation discovered the relationship between Vulcans and Romulans with the destruction of the Kelvin in 2233 rather than in 2266.

But the idea that the United Federation of Planets can be accurately described as having changed to just become a collection of ships is pretty absurd.

To put it another way:

If someone said, "You've got to join the United States Navy. Do you know what the United States is? A humanitarian and peacekeeping armada!"

Now, in the wildest of wild dreams, is the idea of the entire United States of America dissolving as a state, while its surviving navy adopts the name of its former sponsor yet drops the "Navy" from its name, the least bit plausible?

Let me answer that question for you: No, it is not. That character meant to say, "You know what the Navy is?" That's all. And Pike meant to say "Starfleet." That's all.

 

[DrBashir]

No, Pike meant to say Federation because that's what Abrams wrote.

What other parts of the movie would you consider to be mistakes and how would you change them or was this the only one in the entire show?

 

[Sci]

No, Pike meant to say Federation because that's what Abrams wrote.

You mean "Abrahms," right? After all, you must have meant that. That's what you wrote.

What other parts of the movie would you consider to be mistakes and how would you change them

Can't think of anything in particular.

ETA:

Wait! I was wrong. I, too, wrote something down that was a mistake.

Spock's line about there being only 10,000 surviving Vulcans is also most likely in error. Vulcan would necessarily have off-world colonies, and there would probably be millions of Vulcans living throughout the Federation. And Roberto Orci has said as much upon this being pointed out to him.

So, even one of the film's producers and screenwriters has acknowledged that, yeah, some of the lines in that film are erroneous because the fact that you're working on a big budget film doesn't mean that you don't make mistakes.

 

[Kertrats47]

No, Pike meant to say Federation because that's what Abrams wrote.

What other parts of the movie would you consider to be mistakes and how would you change them or was this the only one in the entire show?

Oh, come off it! Of course there are other mistakes, both in this movie and in any other Trek production! They happen!

At one point, someone says that there is damage to the Enterprise's "port nacelles." Plural. Are we to believe our eyes and know that this was just a mistake, and the Enterprise has only one port nacelle? Or do we take the dialog at face value and assume there must be at least one other, invisible warp nacelle on the port side of the Enterprise? Starfleet is obviously an armada of ships. A federal government can't be an armada of ships. It was a mistake. They happen. Breathe slowly, and try to get over it, my friend! It will all work out in the end.

 

[DrBashir]

OK, I'll agree that the line was in error. Abrams was actually going for a homage to TUC with this line and got confused. What he meant to say was:

"You understand what the Federation is,
don't you? It's important.

It's a homo-sapiens only club."

There. Makes sense and is a tip of the hat to TOS. Works for me.

 

[Sci]

OK, I'll agree that the line was in error. Abrams was actually going for a homage to TUC with this line and got confused. What he meant to say was:

"You understand what the Federation is,
don't you? It's important.

It's a homo-sapiens only club."

There. Makes sense and is a tip of the hat to TOS. Works for me.

Yes, let's be as ridiculous in our assertions that we can't be confident that a filmmaker made a mistake as we can possibly be.

Let's see:

Which is more like an armada: The Federation Starfleet, a collection of starships that do things like keep the peace and help people in need, or the United Federation of Planets, the interstellar state to which the Federation Starfleet answers?

 

[Kertrats47]

OK, I'll agree that the line was in error. Abrams was actually going for a homage to TUC with this line and got confused. What he meant to say was:

"You understand what the Federation is,
don't you? It's important.

It's a homo-sapiens only club."

There. Makes sense and is a tip of the hat to TOS. Works for me.

Um... okay...

Anyway, to go back to the stated purpose of this thread, I would like to see a continuation of the Vanguard stories past the "final book." I don't mean the Shedai story or the station itself (as I imagine those will be wrapped up quite well), but I definitely want to see the characters crop up from time to time. I would love to read more about Ming Xiong or T'Prynn. We know T'Prynn is around, but I hope others will be as well...

 

[DrBashir]

OK, I'll agree that the line was in error. Abrams was actually going for a homage to TUC with this line and got confused. What he meant to say was:

"You understand what the Federation is,
don't you? It's important.

It's a homo-sapiens only club."

There. Makes sense and is a tip of the hat to TOS. Works for me.

Yes, let's be as ridiculous in our assertions that we can't be confident that a filmmaker made a mistake as we can possibly be.

Let's see:

Which is more like an armada: The Federation Starfleet, a collection of starships that do things like keep the peace and help people in need, or the United Federation of Planets, the interstellar state to which the Federation Starfleet answers?

No, I'm agreeing with you that he made a mistake. We just don't agree which part of the line was the wrong one.

Kirk even follows in Pike's footsteps until Spock shows up at the end and asks for a job. Kirk was this close to having his all human bridge crew.

Everyone's a little bit racist....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9CSnlb-ymA

 

[Sci]

OK, I'll agree that the line was in error. Abrams was actually going for a homage to TUC with this line and got confused. What he meant to say was:

"You understand what the Federation is,
don't you? It's important.

It's a homo-sapiens only club."

There. Makes sense and is a tip of the hat to TOS. Works for me.

Yes, let's be as ridiculous in our assertions that we can't be confident that a filmmaker made a mistake as we can possibly be.

Let's see:

Which is more like an armada: The Federation Starfleet, a collection of starships that do things like keep the peace and help people in need, or the United Federation of Planets, the interstellar state to which the Federation Starfleet answers?

No, I'm agreeing with you that he made a mistake. We just don't agree which part of the line was the wrong one.

Kirk even follows in Pike's footsteps until Spock shows up at the end and asks for a job. Kirk was this close to having his all human bridge crew.

Everyone's a little bit racist....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9CSnlb-ymA

Again:

Which is more like a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada: The Federation Starfleet, a collection of starships that do things like keep the peace and help people in need? Or the United Federation of Planets, the interstellar state to which the Federation Starfleet answers?

 

[DrBashir]

Again, is the Federation a homo-sapiens only club?

 

[captcalhoun]

that was clearly a perjorative statement by a non-human character over the percieved dominance of the human race in the UFP.

so, clearly, not a mistake.

 

[DrBashir]

I'm not saying that the line in TUC was a mistake.

I'm saying that Abrams meant to pay homage to that scene when he wrote:

"You understand what the Federation is,
don't you? It's important."

Instead of the mistaken line about the Federation being an armada, what he meant to say was:

"It's a homo-sapiens only club."

In the new Universe Azetbur will actually be right. It's foreshadowing.

 

[Kertrats47]

I'm not saying that the line in TUC was a mistake.

I'm saying that Abrams meant to pay homage to that scene when he wrote:

"You understand what the Federation is,
don't you? It's important."

Instead of the mistaken line about the Federation being an armada, what he meant to say was:

"It's a homo-sapiens only club."

In the new Universe Azetbur will actually be right. It's foreshadowing.

Okay, pretty sure you're just trolling now. Moving on.

 

[captcalhoun]

you're making less sense by the post.

 

[Christopher]

If you want to talk about mistakes, the biggest mistake is wasting nearly 100 posts arguing over a single word in a movie. It should be clear by now that nobody's going to convince anyone of anything, so is there really any good reason not to drop the argument and move on?