No, that was just the original plan. The ship is well big enough for 430 people. (Heck, by current Navy standards, the Gray Lady is damn right ROOMY in a lot of respects.)
Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans
- Thread starter Shaw
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No, that was just the original plan. The ship is well big enough for 430 people. (Heck, by current Navy standards, the Gray Lady is damn right ROOMY in a lot of respects.)
Small update on my progress... this is a better resolution version of the profile of the primary hull at this point.
Oh... and Happy Birthday to USS Mariner!
Oh... and Happy Birthday to USS Mariner!
Small update on my progress... this is a better resolution version of the profile of the primary hull at this point.
Oh... and Happy Birthday to USS Mariner!
What a nice birthday present.
Shaw, what you're doing here may prove to be a new standard in many respects. It could stand alongside and indeed even rival previous "definitive" schematics of the TOS E. I really look forward to seeing how this proceeds to completion.
Regarding your quick little 540ft. E comparison. Yikes! I don't think even the 22ft. fullsize mockup shuttlecraft would fit in that.
Regarding your quick little 540ft. E comparison. Yikes! I don't think even the 22ft. fullsize mockup shuttlecraft would fit in that.
^ That's why my project is on hold for a while. I want the most accurate source material I can get, so I know when and where I'm tweaking things, as opposed to simply blundering through things.
^^ I've been using Phil Broad's construction drawings (cloudster.com) as a major reference source for my shuttlecraft project. But it's somewhat of a different situation from Shaw's in that I can see what I believe are clearly construction compromises that might have gone differently with more time and money allowed. In those cases I'm interpreting what I think it's supposed to look like rather than what they had to settle for. But as I've stated from the beginning I'm trying to render a "real" shuttlecraft as opposed to just replicating models, sets and mockups. I also think I'm going to have to tackle the interior again almost from scratch to get it all just right and to arrive at a better and more accurate sense of size.
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Warped 9,
I'd have to agree. Shaw's work is outstanding
I'd have to agree. Shaw's work is outstanding
Little more progress... I'm attempting to nail down the window placement on the dorsal.
Other things... the width of the nacelle supports seems to be about 4.84 inches, which is an odd figure. After checking and rechecking, I finally realized that it is because I'm measuring the sleeve of the support. The inner frame is most likely 4.75 inches wide.
Other things... the width of the nacelle supports seems to be about 4.84 inches, which is an odd figure. After checking and rechecking, I finally realized that it is because I'm measuring the sleeve of the support. The inner frame is most likely 4.75 inches wide.
Taking a break from my studies of the 11 foot model (I'm working on the geometry of the dorsal, which can be tedious at times), I thought I would return to the arrangement of the ship itself for a moment.
One of the areas that I'm pretty sure I differ with other people on is the nature of the main navigational sensor/deflector architecture. Most people seem to envision a large amount of hardware supporting the exterior rings and dish directly behind and in the core of the secondary hull. I envision there is a shielded bulkhead there and that the external hardware we see is modular in design and supposed to be easily replaceable.
Further, the three sensor boxes are actually holding and connecting the module to the secondary hull. Their function isn't all that different from that of the umbilical connector between the Apollo command module and service module.
Currently in my sketches I have the front bulkhead of the secondary hull flat, but eventually it'll be concave to make room for part of the module (which was replaced between the pilot and series versions of the ship).
Anyways, I just thought I'd share that concept with you guys.
One of the areas that I'm pretty sure I differ with other people on is the nature of the main navigational sensor/deflector architecture. Most people seem to envision a large amount of hardware supporting the exterior rings and dish directly behind and in the core of the secondary hull. I envision there is a shielded bulkhead there and that the external hardware we see is modular in design and supposed to be easily replaceable.
Further, the three sensor boxes are actually holding and connecting the module to the secondary hull. Their function isn't all that different from that of the umbilical connector between the Apollo command module and service module.
Currently in my sketches I have the front bulkhead of the secondary hull flat, but eventually it'll be concave to make room for part of the module (which was replaced between the pilot and series versions of the ship).
Anyways, I just thought I'd share that concept with you guys.
I think you might have something there.
Okay, that's an interesting idea, even if I disagree with it. On Apollo, the reason for the connector was because they didn't want to put any holes through the heat shield. Did you have a specific reason in mind as to why the connectors on the Enterprise would have to go around rather than through the bulkhead?
^ Perhaps the sensor/deflection equipment puts out a lot of radiation? If this were the case, I'd have to ask if there is radiation shielding of similar thickness/heft on the underside of the saucer, considering that radiation radiates in all directions.
Interesting idea though, and certainly something that I'd expect Matt to come up with.
Interesting idea though, and certainly something that I'd expect Matt to come up with.
Personally, as long as the rings reflect what existed on the model, I think that's what I'd envision too. I have always tended to think that the 'rings' were basically internalized in later designs, and are analagous to that 'internal' hardware seen in later ships' cutaways. Having the module be swappable is an excellent idea.
Further, the three sensor boxes are actually holding and connecting the module to the secondary hull. Their function isn't all that different from that of the umbilical connector between the Apollo command module and service module.
Currently in my sketches I have the front bulkhead of the secondary hull flat, but eventually it'll be concave to make room for part of the module (which was replaced between the pilot and series versions of the ship).
Anyways, I just thought I'd share that concept with you guys.
That works fine for me. Perhaps these earlier sensors/deflectors off-put a lot more radiation than later models? Will your sensor boxes still also have sensors in them?
The main point behind the idea is that it should be an easily replaceable component... 24 to 48 hours of service. No dry dock needed, just swap it out.
One could say that this part of the ship's technology was known to be in a state of flux when the ship was originally designed and constructed. And to make sure it didn't limit the life span of the vessel, this part was left as modular as possible. I mean, when you think about it the ship had the cone shaped structure while it was still in the design phase, it was (most likely) constructed with a larger dish (that may have been less efficient), which was replaced with a smaller one and finally given an integrated structure like shown for Phase II or in TMP.
As for the box structures... in the beginning (when they were still featureless) I wouldn't think they served any purpose other than to hold the equipment in place and provide the needed connection to the rest of the ship. Later when more features were added (for the series version of the ship) it would seem the addition of sensors would be the best explanation for those changes.
A little off topic (unless you realize that my main motivation for doing these types of plans is to one day build models based on them) I've been reviewing my two starship models. I had wanted to build a model of the Enterprise based on my 33 inch plans, but realized that I would face fewer obstacles if I settled on a two-thirds scale version so I could utilize existing parts and decals for the AMT 22 inch cut-away model.
I bought two kits to use as donors for the project, and went through and figured out what I could use (or modify) and what I would need to basically build from scratch. I kept a modified secondary hull, altered the warp nacelles (including extending the inner trenches back further) and will use a modified version of the supports (because the nacelles are supposed to be closer together than the kit has them). The dorsal and primary hull are basically being built from scratch based on a scaled down version of my plans.
Strangely enough, this left me with enough parts to build a second (basically stock) 22 inch model... which I decided would be the Constellation. While closer to being finished, it is far from being done.
In the images above the model has been test assembled... I haven't glued most of it together yet (I believe a well built model can stand on it's own without glue). I've started painting the primary and secondary hulls, and thats about it.
Part of the reason for pulling out these models is to compare and contrast the dorsal I built for my 22 inch Enterprise with what I'm seeing while studying the 11 foot model.
One could say that this part of the ship's technology was known to be in a state of flux when the ship was originally designed and constructed. And to make sure it didn't limit the life span of the vessel, this part was left as modular as possible. I mean, when you think about it the ship had the cone shaped structure while it was still in the design phase, it was (most likely) constructed with a larger dish (that may have been less efficient), which was replaced with a smaller one and finally given an integrated structure like shown for Phase II or in TMP.
Might have even been something as simple as putting out more heat while in extended use... the deflector burnt out the ship's power systems in Mudd's Women, and it (along with the phaser banks and running at high warp) contributed to crippling the main engines beyond repair (while in space) in The Paradise Syndrome, so it seems like an intense piece of equipment even without knowing it's inner workings.
As for the box structures... in the beginning (when they were still featureless) I wouldn't think they served any purpose other than to hold the equipment in place and provide the needed connection to the rest of the ship. Later when more features were added (for the series version of the ship) it would seem the addition of sensors would be the best explanation for those changes.
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A little off topic (unless you realize that my main motivation for doing these types of plans is to one day build models based on them) I've been reviewing my two starship models. I had wanted to build a model of the Enterprise based on my 33 inch plans, but realized that I would face fewer obstacles if I settled on a two-thirds scale version so I could utilize existing parts and decals for the AMT 22 inch cut-away model.
I bought two kits to use as donors for the project, and went through and figured out what I could use (or modify) and what I would need to basically build from scratch. I kept a modified secondary hull, altered the warp nacelles (including extending the inner trenches back further) and will use a modified version of the supports (because the nacelles are supposed to be closer together than the kit has them). The dorsal and primary hull are basically being built from scratch based on a scaled down version of my plans.
Strangely enough, this left me with enough parts to build a second (basically stock) 22 inch model... which I decided would be the Constellation. While closer to being finished, it is far from being done.
In the images above the model has been test assembled... I haven't glued most of it together yet (I believe a well built model can stand on it's own without glue). I've started painting the primary and secondary hulls, and thats about it.
Part of the reason for pulling out these models is to compare and contrast the dorsal I built for my 22 inch Enterprise with what I'm seeing while studying the 11 foot model.
Spiffy! You've put an admirable effort in accurizing that beauty.
I ended up getting two of the 22" ship myself... one is a Phase II in progress. The one I finished and closed fell off my shelf and needs nacelle surgery.
Oh, and I do quite agree with your deflector thinking.
I ended up getting two of the 22" ship myself... one is a Phase II in progress. The one I finished and closed fell off my shelf and needs nacelle surgery.
Oh, and I do quite agree with your deflector thinking.
Shaw,
I've never quite got the point of having all those windows in the neck. The neck is not much wider than the turbolift shaft running through it...
Regarding the parts on the ship which you have labled the "Umbilical connectors" at least in TMP were called the Space/Energy-Field Attraction Sensors. They seem to be part of the Sensor-Dish/Nagivational-Deflector system
I've never quite got the point of having all those windows in the neck. The neck is not much wider than the turbolift shaft running through it...
Regarding the parts on the ship which you have labled the "Umbilical connectors" at least in TMP were called the Space/Energy-Field Attraction Sensors. They seem to be part of the Sensor-Dish/Nagivational-Deflector system
On the other hand, the dorsal (or "neck") is as wider than a typical wide-body airliner (ignore the super-large ones like the 747 or the A380, of course... it's slightly smaller than the 747 and quite a bit smaller than the A380, laterally).
From that standpoint, the windows make a bit more sense. There are very few locations inside the ship which have windows (and realize that at least SOME of those "windows" we see are probably sensor windows, not viewing windows... I typically assume the round ones are for sensors of various sorts while the square ones are for viewing purposes).
And remember, the crew can't just open the doors and go outside.
From this standpoint, those windows make a lot of sense. And they make even more sense when you consider the (actually rather odd) way that the ship orbits the planet.
Most of the time, our own spacecraft orbit the Earth with the planet either above or below them. It's less common for a "sideways" orbit.
But in a "sideways orbit," you have the opportunity for crewmen, otherwise staring at the same walls all the time, to see a planet... to get a sense of there being a real world out there.
Also, FJ's blueprints notwithstanding, I've always assumed that crewmen would be bunked with several to a room on a ship this size (it's not a flying hotel, it's a machine... with spaces for crew along for the ride).
SO... the dorsal really ought to be largely made up of either "common lounges" for groups of people, or a few small "privacy viewing rooms." I'd make the vertical rows of windows be for those "privacy rooms" while the horizontal rows would be "common viewing lounges."
I might also put the VIP quarters in that part of the ship. An ambassador or a senior admiral really ought to have a room with a view, after all, and it would be a more private spot than virtually anywhere else in the ship. You could give over and entire deck (in the dorsal) to an ambassador and his staff, after all, and they'd be quite comfortable.
So it makes perfect sense to me. Your mileage may vary.
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