Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

[aridas sofia]

-Fitting 430 people in there? Yeah...no.

Yeah... yeah. Two-up, hot bunked, with 23rd century beds that make themselves like those we saw in TOS. Do that for 300 of the crew and you can easily fit them in there. Add some six-up bunk stations for temporary assignments, and you have lots of room to spare.

 

[ancient]

Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)

 

[Cary L. Brown]

ancient said:
Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)

Well, it wasn't EVERYONE... Kirk was just "hot-bunking" with a few of the female crewmembers.

 

[aridas sofia]

ancient said:
Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)

I'm sorry... my memory is playing tricks on me. Just how many times did we see shifts change in TOS?

Obviously hot bunking would be limited to crewman, ensigns, and junior lieutenants. And perhaps some lieutenants.

 

[FalTorPan]

aridas sofia said:

ancient said:
Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)

I'm sorry... my memory is playing tricks on me. Just how many times did we see shifts change in TOS?

Obviously hot bunking would be limited to crewman, ensigns, and junior lieutenants. And perhaps some lieutenants.

Whose (non-guest) cabins did we actually see during TOS? The ones I can think of from off the top of my head include...

Kirk
Spock
McCoy
Scott
Uhura
Rand
Garrovick

 

[Shaw]

ancient said:
-The Windows get really interesting on the engine hull. There are two rows on one deck, others in really wierd positions.

If you are talking about the engineering deck, it is (I thought) well known that that deck is divided into two levels towards the outer edges of the hull (on one side there is a walkway overlooking main engineering and on the other is the Emergency Manual Monitor room also overlooking main engineering).

-Fitting 430 people in there? Yeah...no.

This is just me doing some very fast figures, so please bare with me.

I calculated the square footage of the officer's quarters at about 315 sqft. The largest circular deck has a square footage of about 136,572 sqft. If 80% of that deck was used for living space, that would be about 109,258 sqft.

How many of these single person quarters should fit in that area?

About 346... on just that one deck. But we know that there are living areas on multiple decks, that should be more than enough to handle 430 crew.

That is just me looking at the numbers (without attempting to fit these rooms together), but it sure looks fine from my perspective. And even better if enlisted and junior officers had to double up per quarters (why would they need office space?).

 

[therealfoxbat]

ancient said:
There are a few problems with going with that sketch.

-The Windows get really interesting on the engine hull. There are two rows on one deck, others in really weird positions.

-Fitting 430 people in there? Yeah...no.

-Saucer comes down to one deck thick at the rim, by the looks of it. Again, two rows of windows...one buried in the deck division.

I know Jefferies's ideas and what ended up on screen often conflicted. So, are you going purely on Jefferies and assuming 200 crew, etc, or are you doing a more series-based ship?

I've tried both ways. I just put the turbolift in the fricking back of the bridge, where it belonged on the Jefferies version. All the bridge 'gymnastics' started because the series conflicted with Jefferies's basic design theory once they started moving stuff around.

Fitting 430 people in the Constitution class should be no problem. Look at the first picture on this thread. The CVN-65 has a crew of well over 5,000 (Ship's Company 3,350 + Air Wing 2,480 = 5,830 according to the US Navy website at www.navy.mil).

The saucer hull is two decks thick at the rim. It narrows to one deck thick a little ways in from the rim before expanding as you go further into the center.

You're probably right about the ship's layout getting all hinky once production started. It's anything goes with these people. I live in Las Vegas. We have all kinds of laughs about how Dan Tanna and Con Air screwed with the geography around here...

 

[Patrickivan]

430 people over about 20 decks comes to about 21 people per deck if you spread it out. That's not very many people over a 21 level ship of this size. Probably during an 8 hour shift (just guessing), 1/3 are sleeping, 1/3 are off duty, and 1/3 are working. The most of the non-com crew are probably double bunked (or more like in ST TUC), so that uses the space very effectively. Off duty people are congregating in large recreation spaces. There's more then enough room on this ship- look at the little bridge at the top of the ship- it has a 6 to 9 people at any given time. Put 5 people in four little rooms per deck, and that's your 20 per deck right there. 5 people don't take up that much room...

I'm running off on a tangent here. There's more then enough room- enough said.

 

[ancient]

The CVN has a hell of a lot more volume than the ENT-TOS. When you get down to it, a lot of decks are in the neck. And the livable space consists of a saucer and cylinder that take up only 2/3 or so of the length.

Then you have 7-ft wide corridors everywhere, so slash your space by about 1/3. If you want any of the ship's space to be taken up by things other than living quarters, having any singles (as per canon) doesn't make sense. I've done a few versions of this myself, using the 1080 ft ship. I could fit maybe 280 people into deck 6 if I went 4 to a room. That's subtracting space for impulse drives, labs, computer components, those damn corridors, and turbolifts. And jefferies tubes. And so forth.

I personally like to stay as far away from the FJ BPs as possible, since the ship ends up looking more like a passenger liner than anything else.

Anyhoo, that's my 2c.

EDIT: I was tired last night. Fixed my typing flubs.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Shaw said:
This is just me doing some very fast figures, so please bare with me.

I calculated the square footage of the officer's quarters at about 315 sqft. The largest circular deck has a square footage of about 136,572 sqft. If 80% of that deck was used for living space, that would be about 109,258 sqft.

How many of these single person quarters should fit in that area?

About 346... on just that one deck. But we know that there are living areas on multiple decks, that should be more than enough to handle 430 crew.

That is just me looking at the numbers (without attempting to fit these rooms together), but it sure looks fine from my perspective. And even better if enlisted and junior officers had to double up per quarters (why would they need office space?).

Wanna take a stab at setting up some quarters on Deck 7 of my deck plans? That's the one big issue that's been holding me up (well, that and losing my computer in the eviction).

Just leave room for some rec facilities (gym, theatre, bowling alley ).

 

[Shaw]

Captain Robert April said:
Wanna take a stab at setting up some quarters on Deck 7 of my deck plans? That's the one big issue that's been holding me up (well, that and losing my computer in the eviction).

Well, I don't have enough time to work on my own version. Though maybe a Do-it-yourself version of this stuff really is the direction I should go in.

Still, figuring this stuff out isn't all that hard.

If we assume that all quarters are set up as double rooms, and each of those is 15 feet deep and 12 feet wide at the middle, and we round up the 8.5 foot corridors to 9 feet, then you can start making concentric circles, first one narrower 15 feet, then 9, then 15, 15, 9, 15, 15, etc.

Then figure out the radius at the rooms mid-point and the circumference of a circle that big. Divide that by 12, and you get a rough number of how many rooms can go around the deck at that point. Divide 360 by that number and you'll now have the angle of the wall sections.

This is an example of what I came up with after spending a little time playing with this...

The outer most edge is 205 feet from the center (as the outer edge is angled, I guessed at what that might be). Those room layouts can be used as a template, and rotated and broken up as needed to make space for radial corridors, turbo lifts, etc.

 

[aridas sofia]

I should point out that my contention regarding needing to double up was based on a layout that has a large number of lab facilities (particularly on decks six and seven, associated with space medicine), "farms" for the natural scrubbing of air and production of non-processed foodstuff, extensive engineering facilities in the saucer, cargo storage in the lower saucer, as well as extensive recreation facilities and more. It is based on my belief that the saucer defines the ship as a starship and not a warship, i.e. that a warship could get by with most space devoted to weaponry, propulsion and shielding, with few crew, while a starship would need many, many people to collect and most of all, interpret data, and that a lot of room -- reflected in the ship's design -- would be needed to support that large mission crew.

 

[Shaw]

When considering the use of space, specially when it comes down to quarters, I see the standard layout seen in the series to be very versatile.

The office half of the space seems to be the primary office/work space for most of the officers (though Scotty may have an additional office in the engineering section). People like McGivers wouldn't necessarily have any place else on the ship to do their work, so it is understandable that she might work primarily out of her quarters. So the use of all that space for a single person would seem to be set aside for senior officers and specialist.

I would assume that everyone else would at least double up. And from what we saw of Garrovick's space, I would think that he shares with someone else. The way that the room was filmed seemed to isolate the one half that was occupied by Garrovick.


As for attempting to figure out where to place things within the deck, I was considering using the Hull Pressure Compartments diagram as a general guide.

Basically, you would move the rooms around to fit within the compartments, and attempt to have at least one pressure door and one turbo lift access to each. I am assuming that when open a pressure compartment emergency bulkhead looks like the semi-triangular opening we see at the end of some corridors.

 

[Data Holmes]

I just have to say, I'm really enjoying reading this thread...


There's alot of good work going on in here.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Hey Shaw, me again. I know this is a preliminary sketch, but it looks like you forgot to leave spacing for the bathrooms?

 

[therealfoxbat]

TIN_MAN said:
Hey Shaw, me again. I know this is a preliminary sketch, but it looks like you forgot the bathrooms?

That's what airlocks are for...

 

[Data Holmes]

therealfoxbat said:

TIN_MAN said:
Hey Shaw, me again. I know this is a preliminary sketch, but it looks like you forgot the bathrooms?

That's what airlocks are for...

I've seen it said that they don't need bathrooms, they have transporters take care of that...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

therealfoxbat said:

TIN_MAN said:
Hey Shaw, me again. I know this is a preliminary sketch, but it looks like you forgot the bathrooms?

That's what airlocks are for...

Just as long as the airlocks are at the head of the ship!

 

[therealfoxbat]

hutt359 said:

therealfoxbat said:

TIN_MAN said:
Hey Shaw, me again. I know this is a preliminary sketch, but it looks like you forgot the bathrooms?

That's what airlocks are for...

I've seen it said that they don't need bathrooms, they have transporters take care of that...

Except transporters don't give you that truly awesome ***FLUSH!!!*** sound that makes the whole ship rattle...

middyseafort said:
Just as long as the airlocks are at the head of the ship!

No way! You do NOT want the airlocks at the head of the ship! That falls squarely in the realm of (bleep)-ing into the wind...

(And just imagine the poor red-shirted guy whose job it is to go outside in a spacesuit and scrape all the airlock residue off the hull...)

 

[Shaw]

The preliminary sketch was to illustrate getting the rooms sized correctly for each of the concentric rings of cabins... their placement on the diagram itself is totally random and not intended to represent their actual placement within the ship.

My suggestion for anyone playing with this stuff on their own is to grab one cabin from each ring, and copy paste as many (or as little) as you think you need. I would guess that you could include a space between every other cabin for a bathroom... with two cabins sharing one.

But yeah, this thread and the images within it are in no way intended to represent a final product... this is all just brainstorming and data collection (not all that different from what I did in the three-footer thread).


Besides, I'm not planning on filling in stuff that we didn't see in the show. What could have been behind that door in the cabin was never stated, and I'm not even planning on finishing two or three wall sets for this. It is just to see how this stuff might have fit using strictly what we could get from the show.