Backup navigational deflectors, perhaps? Or forward sensor array?
Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans
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Maybe those windows are in those positions because the First Federation, Ewoks and Jawas all filed a Class Action Discrimination Lawsuit against Starfleet...
As PC as the Federation is, they would have been tripping over themselves to put in those windows for fear of offending anybody...
As PC as the Federation is, they would have been tripping over themselves to put in those windows for fear of offending anybody...
Well they don't all have to be Thrusters
Just the ones that would make sense to have that function a little.
You've mentioned this several times, but I know not what you're referring to. What windows in Kirks quarters? In which episodes?
They were only seen in the first few filmed episodes, and then only indirectly. They were most likely dropped due to budget issues (producing a star field or the like) and because they were quite a bit smaller than the windows on the model.
Below is a few screen shots of the windows when visible and the original placement of the windows on the set drawings.
If we assume that my illustration of the windows in my previous post are pretty close to scale with the 11 foot model, then these windows don't even come close to matching any of the windows along the edge of the primary hull.
Oh right. Now I remember.
I doubt it was budget from the standpoint of building a starfield...that's pretty easy to do and cheap, especially if you don't want it to move. Maybe it related to the time it would take to get the lighting and exposure right, or maybe somone realized that the ship at warp shots would have moving stars that wouldn't match a stationary starfield in the windows.
I doubt it was budget from the standpoint of building a starfield...that's pretty easy to do and cheap, especially if you don't want it to move. Maybe it related to the time it would take to get the lighting and exposure right, or maybe somone realized that the ship at warp shots would have moving stars that wouldn't match a stationary starfield in the windows.
Marvel No-Prize Treatment Time!
Those aren't windows, they're user variable viewscreens that can be used to simulate windows and present whatever environment the occupants wishes to view, either a starfield, a green meadow, painted desert, a howling box canyon on Rigel XII, whatever.
Those aren't windows, they're user variable viewscreens that can be used to simulate windows and present whatever environment the occupants wishes to view, either a starfield, a green meadow, painted desert, a howling box canyon on Rigel XII, whatever.
I suppose you could say these aren't windows but holographic screens, to help open up the room a bit and guard against claustrophobia. It's a stretch, but better than trying to match it to the exterior windows and it frees the windows on the saucer perimeter for common areas.
That's what Franz Joseph inferred when he termed them "environmental systems reactors". I'd think some of the "windows" were just that, but it seems unnecessary to have them everywhere when the view from a window could be precisely simulated on any screen. It's not as if we are comparing a big screen television to a window -- these people should be able to conjure a perfect holographic replica of the outside view.
So... IMO those little "windows" seen in the first season were FJ's environmental systems reactors, and those quarters were not situated along the saucer rim. The curvature of the corridor would strongly suggest a more central location.
Hmm. A most interesting concept.Well, I'm guessing that you guys noticed that I left that area of the one compartment I did earlier open... and that was because the windows didn't match anything seen on screen. I had hoped that the windows designed into Kirk's cabin (and partially seen in a few early episodes) would have matched those on the model. Sadly they didn't.
But I was playing around with the idea of what might be in that part of the ship, and this was what I came up with...
Something like an open commons area... specially for crew members who don't have their own office area in their cabins. As for the portholes... I'm not sure what they are, but I'm most likely not including them as standard windows of any type.
Perhaps those oddly placed windows on the rim are the holographic sensors that transmit the same image to several of those holo-screens? Which may (but not necessarily) eliminate the need for the split level conjiguration.
So it sounds like you guys like the idea that these are holographic windows... sort of like the solution that Warped9 used for his shuttlecraft. I guess that is one way to give everyone a window cabin, and it would solve the type of issue Hoshi
had with the stars going the wrong way (as you could program a view from any part of the ship you wanted.
The question I have is this... given that it fell into almost complete disuse (at least among the characters whose cabins we saw), would that be considered a reflection of it's overall success?
It also solves an issue I was having with the placement of certain cabins... I had planned on putting most of the main characters cabins in ring 1 of deck 5, which is about as far away from where the windows are as you can get. Having Uhura's cabin there solved the problem of her running around in her dressing gown yelling for Spock but finding McCoy instead (from Tholian Web). If there quarters were in ring 1 and sick bay is in ring 0, then she would have been a very short distance away from McCoy who might have just been getting off duty.
Another Window issue that I have been looking at is the observation gallery... while the windows on the inside work out pretty good (in my very early studies), the exterior windows are quite a few feet higher than the related ones on the model. While Holographic windows are nice for cabins, I would assume that in some places real windows exist. Two such places that are strong candidates for real windows are the observation gallery (from The Conscience of the King) and the observation port on what I would guess is deck 2 (from The Mark Of Gideon).
Anyways, I guess since I brought it up, I should share a little of my hangar deck observation gallery stuff...
In this drawing I've left the gallery at a constant width as it travels along the side of the ship. Though I'm not seriously considering staying with that, I figured it was a good outer boundary to start with and then narrow the corridor over the length to see how it works out with hangar space.
had with the stars going the wrong way (as you could program a view from any part of the ship you wanted.
The question I have is this... given that it fell into almost complete disuse (at least among the characters whose cabins we saw), would that be considered a reflection of it's overall success?
It also solves an issue I was having with the placement of certain cabins... I had planned on putting most of the main characters cabins in ring 1 of deck 5, which is about as far away from where the windows are as you can get. Having Uhura's cabin there solved the problem of her running around in her dressing gown yelling for Spock but finding McCoy instead (from Tholian Web). If there quarters were in ring 1 and sick bay is in ring 0, then she would have been a very short distance away from McCoy who might have just been getting off duty.
Another Window issue that I have been looking at is the observation gallery... while the windows on the inside work out pretty good (in my very early studies), the exterior windows are quite a few feet higher than the related ones on the model. While Holographic windows are nice for cabins, I would assume that in some places real windows exist. Two such places that are strong candidates for real windows are the observation gallery (from The Conscience of the King) and the observation port on what I would guess is deck 2 (from The Mark Of Gideon).
Anyways, I guess since I brought it up, I should share a little of my hangar deck observation gallery stuff...
In this drawing I've left the gallery at a constant width as it travels along the side of the ship. Though I'm not seriously considering staying with that, I figured it was a good outer boundary to start with and then narrow the corridor over the length to see how it works out with hangar space.
Shaw, regarding your cabin placement. I would suggest you not put the senior command staff (Captain, First Officer and Chief Engineer) all clustered together. The idea being that if something disastrous happens to one part of the ship you lessen the risk of losing all the command staff. Spread them apart from each other.
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Well, considering that there are 6 compartments which make up rings 1 and 2 of deck 5, you could have one of each of the 6 senior (in command structure) officers located in each. Of course you run the risk of making those officers seem like den mothers of sorts. But I don't see that type of distribution going against the idea of those rings being Officers Country (where in this case officers would mean senior officers, master chiefs and maybe some chiefs in key positions).
Some other (random) thoughts about ship board life...
Rather than having a swimming pool, it seems like a more efficient use of space to have a number of swim spas to help keep people in shape. Also, if the corridor in ring 4 of deck 6 is continuous all the way around the ship (passing under the impulse engine machinery in the aft area of the primary hull), that would make that corridor perfect for running (or walking) laps (approximately 3 laps to one kilometer).
We know that there is a bowling alley, which serves a dual role as a community hall (for dances and the like), but I would guess that when not being used for shuttlecraft operations, the hangar deck would be another area that could be used for some form of recreation. It is just about the right size for a volleyball court (whose lines could be projected onto the deck from above). I would imagine that it would be used for other social activities much like the hangar deck space of carriers of today.
I was thinking that there might also be two small convenience stores in the primary hull, and a larger multi-purpose store that might take up part of the deck space of two or three decks in the dorsal (connected by a stairway within the store itself). I figure that this would provide more space than your average shopping mall unit. Considering that it is the 23rd century, I would guess that the convenience stores would be mostly automated (with self checkout), and that all three stores could be handled by as few as 4 crew members. I would also guess that these same crew members would also be responsible for general postal service.
To answer the question of why have a multi-purpose store and postal service on the Enterprise?... well, remember that the Enterprise is a frontier vessel, and in many cases the only contact with civilization for outlying posts and colonies. A visit by the Enterprise is most likely a big deal to people in places like that, and those people would have needs above and beyond just standard resupplying and medical checkups.
Like I said, just some thoughts... most likely nothing I'd put in, but things I would guess would be there.
Some other (random) thoughts about ship board life...
Rather than having a swimming pool, it seems like a more efficient use of space to have a number of swim spas to help keep people in shape. Also, if the corridor in ring 4 of deck 6 is continuous all the way around the ship (passing under the impulse engine machinery in the aft area of the primary hull), that would make that corridor perfect for running (or walking) laps (approximately 3 laps to one kilometer).
We know that there is a bowling alley, which serves a dual role as a community hall (for dances and the like), but I would guess that when not being used for shuttlecraft operations, the hangar deck would be another area that could be used for some form of recreation. It is just about the right size for a volleyball court (whose lines could be projected onto the deck from above). I would imagine that it would be used for other social activities much like the hangar deck space of carriers of today.
I was thinking that there might also be two small convenience stores in the primary hull, and a larger multi-purpose store that might take up part of the deck space of two or three decks in the dorsal (connected by a stairway within the store itself). I figure that this would provide more space than your average shopping mall unit. Considering that it is the 23rd century, I would guess that the convenience stores would be mostly automated (with self checkout), and that all three stores could be handled by as few as 4 crew members. I would also guess that these same crew members would also be responsible for general postal service.
To answer the question of why have a multi-purpose store and postal service on the Enterprise?... well, remember that the Enterprise is a frontier vessel, and in many cases the only contact with civilization for outlying posts and colonies. A visit by the Enterprise is most likely a big deal to people in places like that, and those people would have needs above and beyond just standard resupplying and medical checkups.
Like I said, just some thoughts... most likely nothing I'd put in, but things I would guess would be there.
I wouldn't take the bowling alley reference too seriously, since the bloke was pissed as a fart at the time. He just as well have said there's a derby race in the ballroom. On the other hand, "bowling alley" could be ship board slang for some real facility like the torpedo bay (if the TWoK configuration is any measure) the Hanger Deck or indeed on of the nacelle catwalks.
I just think it's a little TOO much of a luxury to have that specific a leisure facility. More likely you'll have a rec-deck like the one in TMP with holographic games, maybe even holographic bowling.
I like the idea of swim spas rather than a single pool and a few multi purpose gymnasiums would seam to be appropriate.
Not sure I agree with the idea of a general store though. Technically it's still a military ship (broadly speaking) and with the absence of money I imagine most material requirements would go through the Ship's Quartermaster as would any "snail-mail".
I think in TNG we saw something vaguely resembling a store on the E-D but that was basically a huge replicator for making giant bunnies. For "shopping" purposes I imagine it's usually more a case of the crew buying/trading things on shore leave than the other way around.
I just think it's a little TOO much of a luxury to have that specific a leisure facility. More likely you'll have a rec-deck like the one in TMP with holographic games, maybe even holographic bowling.
I like the idea of swim spas rather than a single pool and a few multi purpose gymnasiums would seam to be appropriate.
Not sure I agree with the idea of a general store though. Technically it's still a military ship (broadly speaking) and with the absence of money I imagine most material requirements would go through the Ship's Quartermaster as would any "snail-mail".
I think in TNG we saw something vaguely resembling a store on the E-D but that was basically a huge replicator for making giant bunnies. For "shopping" purposes I imagine it's usually more a case of the crew buying/trading things on shore leave than the other way around.
Not sure I agree with the idea of a general store though. Technically it's still a military ship (broadly speaking) and with the absence of money I imagine most material requirements would go through the Ship's Quartermaster as would any "snail-mail".
I think in TNG we saw something vaguely resembling a store on the E-D but that was basically a huge replicator for making giant bunnies. For "shopping" purposes I imagine it's usually more a case of the crew buying/trading things on shore leave than the other way around.
Military ships, especially those of the USN, have small stores for crew to purchase things such as candy, magazines, soap, etc. They are mini-marts/exchanges. When my father was an officer on a destroyer, I had a chance to see one. So, I don't think it would be out of the ordinary on a Starfleet vessel. Also, TOS did have use of the credit system as noted in "The Trouble with Tribbles" when Uhura took Chekov to do a "little shopping."
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