Anomalies in fandom

[Grant]

Yes that's the most logical explanation and I also read that but forgot where.
The idea that he came to the bridge to show Kirk his mistakes have led to Peter's death are bizarre.
That's the great thing about novels is they have plenty of time to fill in every little explanation that would bog down the movie going experience. Either material that was never written into the script or parts of the script that were cut out that fill in gaps and explain plot holes.

 

[Lance]

For the purposes of accounting, Barrett, Doohan, Koenig, Nichols, Takei and Whitney were what was effectively known as 'day players' -- aka, they were hired to maybe do 1-3 days filming for an episode, whereas the leads (Shatner, Nimoy, and ultimately Kelley) were employed for 7-8 days filming. In basic terms, Chapel, Scotty, Chekov, Uhura, Sulu and Rand were dressing for any given episode. They're a step up from extras because their characters all had a paragraph in the series bible/writer's guide, but in purely practical terms they're right there alongside Lt. Kyle, Lt Leslie, Lt. DeSalle. Any and all of them could be employed as supporting cast to the main three, but their functions in the plot were strictly to be exactly that: support for the big three. Doohan and Koenig arguably favoured better by merit on their characters being fairly strongly drawn, but it wasn't until the movies that those characters were redefined as 'co-stars'. The animated series was the watershed for the actors themselves being treated better, as Nimoy famously went to bat to get them re-employed to reprise their roles (although partly altruistic, this also shows Nimoy's continual jostling for increased control: he used this as a bargaining chip for his participation in TAS, and that the producers conceeded was basicially an admission that they feared going forward in Star Trek without Nimoy).

The characters undeniably are a big part of the overall TOS mythos, and have become more important retrospectively. But on the show itself, they were not that important that any of them couldn't have been replaced in any given script, as was ably demonstrated throughout season two when Takei was away filming The Green Berets and his dialogue was sometimes lifted wholesale and given to Koenig. Nichols, also, was frequently subbed in with other supporting artists.

 

[Ssosmcin]

McCoy missed a few episodes of the first season. Kirk was off screen for much of The Tholian Web, but that’s it. The series was pretty much about Kirk. David Gerrold put it this way:

At first, it was about Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise.

Then it was about Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock and the crew of the Enterprise.

Finally, it was about Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and the crew of the Enterprise.

But Kirk was always the driving force. Until the animated series when they did one episode without him. Not coincidentally, it’s the episode I rarely watch.

 

[Pauln6]

McCoy missed a few episodes of the first season. Kirk was off screen for much of The Tholian Web, but that’s it. The series was pretty much about Kirk. David Gerrold put it this way:

At first, it was about Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise.

Then it was about Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock and the crew of the Enterprise.

Finally, it was about Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and the crew of the Enterprise.

But Kirk was always the driving force. Until the animated series when they did one episode without him. Not coincidentally, it’s the episode I rarely watch.

McCoy was definitely a supporting player in season one but that allowed him to steal his scenes because Kelly was so awesome. I think Kelly only missed one episode in season one, compared to Grace's five (but that might have been because she was suffering health problems that affected her looks sometimes as well as the fact that McCoy's niche allowed him (in the same way as Scotty) to be pivotal to the plot in a way that Rand (in the sixties at least) couldn't. Charlie X was intended to showcase Rand but she was still only on par with Kirk - she seeks Kirk's aid to help Charlie socialise and Kirk saves the day in the end. If Rand had been used as initially intended in Dagger of the Mind, she would have stood alongside Kirk as more of an equal but even there, although Noel saved the day, it was only by implementing Kirk's direct instructions.

I actually think that the cast dynamic in Enterprise was most similar to TOS except that the engineer and doctor were swapped in the hierarchy and the security chief was elevated to the same level by reason of the fact Kirk filled that role by default in TOS. The remaining cast were woefully under-developed. That said, Sulu and Chekov were considered for character development even if some of those plot elements never materialised in final drafts. I can't think of any stories being written with Uhura in mind until TAS.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Aside from Where No Man Has Gone Before (which arguably counts since it ran as part of the series proper) and The Menagerie part 2 (which is mostly original pilot footage but he’s not even in the courtroom scenes), McCoy is missing from What Are Little Girls Made Of? and Errand of Mercy.

So two to four episodes, depending on how you look at It. The Cage is obviously out of consideration.

 

[Pauln6]

Aside from Where No Man Has Gone Before (which arguably counts since it ran as part of the series proper) and The Menagerie part 2 (which is mostly original pilot footage but he’s not even in the courtroom scenes), McCoy is missing from What Are Little Girls Made Of? and Errand of Mercy.

So two to four episodes, depending on how you look at It. The Cage is obviously out of consideration.

He's not in Errand of Mercy? I never even noticed that! But even if you count all the Yeomen as Rand, she would have appeared about as often as Scotty, so he was a level above her for sure, plus he owns most of his scenes, as does Scotty. Rand only really stands out in Man Trap and Charlie X. Sulu is pretty key in the Enemy Within and his double act with Rand in Man Trap is good. Making a McCoy focused episode as the first to air certainly helped McCoy's profile too, although I think Grace was fired before the episodes aired so character popularity probably didn't factor so much until season 2.

 

[Neopeius]

I have a bit of an ambiguous query, but, there are two things I have noticed about TOS fandom, let’s say in the 80s but prior to TNG coming out. I want to know if you noticed it, too, or agree, or have any sort of explanation.

1. Disproportionate love for Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov
There is a segment of fandom which always thought these characters got the shaft and should be as much featured as the big three. (I first noticed this in book reviews, which always gave points to authors who featured these characters.)

2. Disproportionate love for Klingons
There is a segment of fandom which seems to think they are as cool and important as our heroes in the Federation/Starfleet. (I first noticed this in gaming—often games would have you play as Klingons.)

Whence these puzzling phenomena? I wouldn’t say I don’t see ANY appeal in these elements, it just seems within TOS itself they are much more minor than they came to be perceived, if that makes sense.

I'm late to the party, but as someone whose fandom was defined in the 80s, I am your target audience.

1) We got tired of Big Three stories. All the eps, all the movies, most of the books, they revolved around the Big Three. We were fascinated by the others. We saw ourselves in them. It wasn't just the Fab Four, but Leslie and Kyle and M'Benga and Tamura and...and all the other ships in the Federation. We wanted stories that made the universe big.

That's one of my gripes about most of the Trek fan productions (though Axanar's killed them all, right?) is they dealt with the same damned Big Three. Kudos to Exeter for actually expanding the canon instead of retreading it.

2) That comes straight from TOS and TOS-adjacent material. The Making of ST had the D-7/Enterprise comparison graphic. The 70s saw blueprints of the D-7 and the Warbird come out, but since the Romulans were using Klingon ships, and the Warbird couldn't do warp(?), Klingon ships were natural adversaries when games like Star Fleet Battle Manual and Star Fleet Battles came out. All the original Trek computer games had the Klingons (or Klingon analogs) as the baddies -- who else had ships that were A) Recognizable and B) on par with the Enterprise?

 

[Pauln6]

I'm late to the party, but as someone whose fandom was defined in the 80s, I am your target audience.

1) We got tired of Big Three stories. All the eps, all the movies, most of the books, they revolved around the Big Three. We were fascinated by the others. We saw ourselves in them. It wasn't just the Fab Four, but Leslie and Kyle and M'Benga and Tamura and...and all the other ships in the Federation. We wanted stories that made the universe big.

That's one of my gripes about most of the Trek fan productions (though Axanar's killed them all, right?) is they dealt with the same damned Big Three. Kudos to Exeter for actually expanding the canon instead of retreading it.

2) That comes strait from TOS and TOS-adjacent material. The Making of ST had the D-7/Enterprise comparison graphic. The 70s saw blueprints of the D-7 and the Warbird come out, but since the Romulans were using Klingon ships, and the Warbird couldn't do warp(?), Klingon ships were natural adversaries when games like Star Fleet Battle Manual and Star Fleet Battles came out. All the original Trek computer games had the Klingons (or Klingon analogs) as the baddies -- who else had ships that were A) Recognizable and B) on par with the Enterprise?

I would not say I was tired of the big three but rather that I enjoy the dynamic more when it isn't just the big three. I find them to be more interesting when they can bounce off other characters and when they bounce off other recurring characters, I enjoy it even more.

 

[Noname Given]

But Kirk was always the driving force. Until the animated series when they did one episode without him. Not coincidentally, it’s the episode I rarely watch.

Yeah, that's TAS - "The Slaver Weapon" by Larry Niven; and yeah, if I was a small talent hack like Gerrold, I wouldn't like to be reminded a Hugo and Nebula award winning writer can quickly retool one of his short stories and get it made on TAS and have it considered one of the top episodes of said series.

 

[Neopeius]

Yeah, that's TAS - "The Slaver Weapon" by Larry Niven; and yeah, if I was a small talent hack like Gerrold, I wouldn't like to be reminded a Hugo and Nebula award winning writer can quickly retool one of his short stories and get it made on TAS and have it considered one of the top episodes of said series.

Ouch!

I grew up on Niven and Gerrold (and the two of them collaborated on The Flying Sorcerers). I'd hardly call Gerrold a small talent hack. And what has Niven written worth reading since 1979?

Also, I suspect "Until the animated series when they did one episode without him. Not coincidentally, it’s the episode I rarely watch." are ssosmcin's words, not Gerrold's. The Slaver Weapon isn't bad, but it's a clumsy translation of The Soft Weapon. It's not in my top 5 of TAS.

 

[Maurice]

Silly comparison. Once could just as easily ask what has Gerrold written that's worth reading since the same time? The only book of his that ever stuck with me was The Man Who Folded Himself. His Chtorr books were so unmemorable I can only remember the premise and precisely none of the characters or plots. :shrug YMMV

 

[Grant]

I love the Big Three but to me the best episodes are the ones where the rest of the crew participated and contributed.
And by the rest of the crew I do not mean just the four so-called regulars I mean the REST of the crew

 

[Ssosmcin]

Also, I suspect "Until the animated series when they did one episode without him. Not coincidentally, it’s the episode I rarely watch." are ssosmcin's words, not Gerrold's.

Yup, totally mine. And I’m not knocking the episode, other than it’s without Kirk. He’s my favorite character, so an episode without him isn’t as appealing to me.

If The Tholian Web wasn’t as well written as it was, especially for that time of the series run, I wouldn’t rate it highly. But even if Kirk is only in a few scenes, the episode is still about him and his absence. It’s a Kirk centric episode without much Kirk.

 

[Neopeius]

Silly comparison. Once could just as easily ask what has Gerrold written that's worth reading since the same time? The only book of his that ever stuck with me was The Man Who Folded Himself. His Chtorr books were so unmemorable I can only remember the premise and precisely none of the characters or plots. :shrug YMMV

I liked the Chtorr series quite a lot. The only problem with them is they don't end...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I liked the Chtorr series quite a lot. The only problem with them is they don't end...

I thought they were very good books, immersing you in a whole fictional future, but there was one scene that is more than problematic. I think it was in the second book. The protagonist, the hero, has [I'm not even sure we can mention it] with two prepubescent children one night, and it's A-okay. No problem. He just goes on being the hero.

Am I the only one who remembers that? Was it edited out of a "corrected" edition of the book?

 

[Maurice]

I liked the Chtorr series quite a lot. The only problem with them is they don't end...

And probably never will at this point. Gerrold has clearly demonstrated an inability to get back to them.

 

[Lance]

Even in TOS, behind the scenes it was often acknowledged that 'The Big Three' could sometimes be problematic. Gerrold has written about this before of course, but it seemed also that they had some intent to shake it up and give the day-players something more to do. Kirk was the lead -- every body had to be a satellite to Kirk, that's perfectly understandable and not uncommon at all -- but apparently there were intentions to mix it up by (for example) doing a Kirk and Scotty story, or a Kirk and Sulu story, or a Kirk and Uhura story... sadly, it seldom happened, because Kirk and Spock proved to be such a winning formula, and Shatner and Nimoy were being paid the most so it made no sense to sideline Spock just to give Takei a bigger part.

Times change. By the time Phase II was being planned, it seems like they went into that one with more an idea of an ensemble, and while Kirk was still nominally at the top, there were to be a focus on more of the cast dynamic, with one idea even being to gradually phase Kirk out if Shatner's salary and movie offers got too big. Nimoy being absent would have also undoubtedly given more of an opportunity for the ensemble to move up in importance. Of course, by TNG in 1987, the idea of the ensemble cast was more or less baked in too.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Times change. By the time Phase II was being planned, it seems like they went into that one with more an idea of an ensemble, and while Kirk was still nominally at the top, there were to be a focus on more of the cast dynamic, with one idea even being to gradually phase Kirk out if Shatner's salary and movie offers got too big. Nimoy being absent would have also undoubtedly given more of an opportunity for the ensemble to move up in importance.

Well, that's a plan that was never executed, and anyway I think we can see how that would have played out by examining the closest thing that happened, the films. Just like in the series, the focus was on the big three and the guest stars, which in the films were Collins, Khambatta, Alley, Montalbán, Hicks, et al.

If neither Shatner nor Nimoy had been in P2, then after Kelley the rest of the TOS cast would have played second fiddle to a new set of stars, and I'd've been surprised if Kelley hadn't been "phased out" too. Just having been on the original show wouldn't have given the non-big-three TOS cast members what they'd've needed to carry a show by themselves.

 

[johnnybear]

Apart from Where No Man Has Gone Before, DeForest Kelley was absent from What Are Little Girls Made of?, The Menagerie Part Two and Errand of Mercy! (He was probably on Capella IV at the same time)
JB

 

[Grant]

DeForest Kelley film scenes for the Menagerie part two but they were cut from the final edit. That is explained in the Lost scenes hardcover book that came out last year.