Angel - (My) First Impressions

[Too Much Fun]

Naturally when there are lists like those (and I choose to limit myself to 10), some great moments are going to be excluded. For the record, I thought Buffy's words and crying at the end of "I Will Remember You" made up some of the best acting Sarah Michelle Gellar ever did (a big reason I ranked the episode so high), and Spike's mocking comments were one of the only parts of his first "Angel" episode that I liked. So yeah, I loved those moments too, but I can't include everything. I don't have a photographic memory, ya know!

 

[saturn5]

Yeah, Five by Five is my favourite ep too. As for Kate, Elizabeth Rhom got her role on Law & Order and she was hardly going to turn that down. Rumour was she would do a cameo in season 3 (working at the bordello Angel and the Groo visit) but that might have been wishful thinking by some folks at the Bronze, I figure we either buy the comics explanation or assume she just changed her identity and became an assistant DA in New York

 

[label]

Favourite characters that I wish were used more/around longer: Doyle, Lee, The Groosalug, Lilah, Eve, Gwen, Justine, and Kate (what the hell was with her being so important for two seasons and then suddenly vanishing forever?).

Lilah and the Groosalaug I definitely loved and would have liked to have seen them more often, particularly Lilah in Season 5 where she would have been a natural fit. I still think that's one of the biggest mistakes they made for Season 5 by not including her.

Kate I liked early on, but after her father's death she was just bitter and angry and I really didn't care for her. I was hoping Angel would have just finished her in the Shroud of Rahamon.

Doyle was fine, but if giving up Doyle got me Wesley then that's a trade I'd make any day of the week.

Most improved character: Wesley - Never before have I seen a character so naturally and convincingly transform from a bumbling, pathetic joke to such a tough, intelligent, tremendously resourceful and admirable hero of immense talent and emotional depth.

No doubt. Only G'kar's character from Babylon 5 goes through a more incredible arc that changes the core of the character. Wesley's my favorite character in the Buffyverse, hands down.

Worst character: Jasmine - I hated everything about this character and her arc. She singlehandedly ruined about 75% of an entire season.

While I admit she was anti-climactic do a degree, she was only in 25% of the season.....

Best character damage control: Teenage Connor and Illyria - I hated both of them and thought they were both bad ideas at first. By the end of season 5, however, I was glad they were around.

Agreed about Connor, totally. I always liked Illyria from the outset and didn't have the apprehensions about the character that you did when you watched it. But, I totally found Connor's arc annoying in Season 4 and felt they did go a long ways to redeeming him to the point where I would have loved to have him back full time in Season 6-7.

(4) Wesley: "Leave the glasses on."

One of the most brilliantly, dark disturbing lines I've seen between a "couple" on any show.

 

[Forbin]

(2) "I Will Remember You" - The most moving episode, it worked big time on a softie like me.

Me too. And I think it may be SMGs best performance on either show.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Favourite characters that I wish were used more/around longer: Doyle, Lee, The Groosalug, Lilah, Eve, Gwen, Justine, and Kate (what the hell was with her being so important for two seasons and then suddenly vanishing forever?).

Well, incase you change you mind about the Season 6 comics, here's ab update on some of the characters who do and do not come back:

Spoiler: Characters

Doyle = NO; but there was, in the background, a street named after him.
Lee = who was Lee?
Groosalug = yes (an issue or two, as I recall)
Lilah = no
Eve = no
Gwen = yes
Justine = unsure -- I can't recall who she was.
Kate = yes; does Conner have to flirt with everybody?

 

[Too Much Fun]

Lee was part of the original 'Terrible Trio' (I mean terrible as in villainous, not shitty) of Wolfram & Hart lawyers consisting of Lindsey, Lilah, and him. I guess a lot of people forgot about him because he was killed off relatively early in the series. Holland Manners had him murdered in front of his co-workers. I forget what it was for...something about going behind the firm's back and lying. He didn't last long, but he left a big impression on me.

I loved his smarmy exchanges with Lilah, especially when she refuses to let him approach Faith first because he has no people skills (He: "You bitch", She: "See?") and the actor who played him absolutely nailed his delivery of that line about assassins I quoted earlier. I love how Faith beats him up and then later they're talking about killing her and he says something like "It should hurt A LOT." sitting there in his neck brace covered in scars.

Justine was Holtz's 'special project' - the woman hell bent on revenge against vampires after her sister was killed by one. Like Kate, I think her character arc was sufficiently wrapped up in the series, so there was no pressing need to bring her back. I would have liked to see her again anyways just because I liked the character and the actress who played her so much. Your comment about Connor made me smile. I forgot what a slut he was at first.

I read a bit about the comics on Wikipedia. I think it was classy of them to retire the characters of Doyle and Lorne after the actors who played them died. I heard there was talk of Glen Quinn being brought back at some point in the series if he hadn't died. I wonder how that would have gone. I think it would have been nice to see him again.

 

[saturn5]

Favourite characters that I wish were used more/around longer: Doyle, Lee, The Groosalug, Lilah, Eve, Gwen, Justine, and Kate (what the hell was with her being so important for two seasons and then suddenly vanishing forever?).

Lilah and the Groosalaug I definitely loved and would have liked to have seen them more often, particularly Lilah in Season 5 where she would have been a natural fit. I still think that's one of the biggest mistakes they made for Season 5 by not including her.

Kate I liked early on, but after her father's death she was just bitter and angry and I really didn't care for her. I was hoping Angel would have just finished her in the Shroud of Rahamon.

Doyle was fine, but if giving up Doyle got me Wesley then that's a trade I'd make any day of the week.

Most improved character: Wesley - Never before have I seen a character so naturally and convincingly transform from a bumbling, pathetic joke to such a tough, intelligent, tremendously resourceful and admirable hero of immense talent and emotional depth.

No doubt. Only G'kar's character from Babylon 5 goes through a more incredible arc that changes the core of the character. Wesley's my favorite character in the Buffyverse, hands down.



While I admit she was anti-climactic do a degree, she was only in 25% of the season.....

Best character damage control: Teenage Connor and Illyria - I hated both of them and thought they were both bad ideas at first. By the end of season 5, however, I was glad they were around.

Agreed about Connor, totally. I always liked Illyria from the outset and didn't have the apprehensions about the character that you did when you watched it. But, I totally found Connor's arc annoying in Season 4 and felt they did go a long ways to redeeming him to the point where I would have loved to have him back full time in Season 6-7.

(4) Wesley: "Leave the glasses on."

One of the most brilliantly, dark disturbing lines I've seen between a "couple" on any show.

Love to have seen more Groo, it was rumoured they would do a scene in season 5 where Fred would look at Harmony's 'naked hunks' calender and recognise him as one of the models. Or maybe he could turn up in Sunnydale to help the fight against the First? (no original Angel character ever appeared on Buffy)
As for Lilah i think if she'd continued in season 5 it would have lessened the impact of her death. I'd just like to have seen a longer goodbye between Lilah and Wes and maybe he could have found some way to release her from her contract?
Always liked Kate and it was better that she wasn't just another Angel fan, it was better when there was some tension between them

 

[I am not Spock]

Love to have seen more Groo, it was rumoured they would do a scene in season 5 where Fred would look at Harmony's 'naked hunks' calender and recognise him as one of the models. Or maybe he could turn up in Sunnydale to help the fight against the First? (no original Angel character ever appeared on Buffy)

Yeah, that's true. Plenty of Buffy characters showed up on Angel, never the reverse. I kept wanting one to appear, but it never happened. We did hear Fred mentioned (guy sounds kinda effeminate ) and Doyle (not by name, just Angel talking about his friend with the visions)

 

[label]

(2) "I Will Remember You" - The most moving episode, it worked big time on a softie like me.

Me too. And I think it may be SMGs best performance on either show.

You know, I was thinking about that tonight and because I'm just about to rewatch the episode, I think she actually did her best work in The Body. She's absolutely riveting in that episode, for the entire thing. Nuanced, layered...it has it all.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Kate (what the hell was with her being so important for two seasons and then suddenly vanishing forever?).

I've speculated before - loudly - that if the actress hadn't left to take another job, Kate would have had the role in season 3 that eventually went to the new character of Justine. I just can't figure out what role, if any, she might have played after that.

I love the women in this series. I think it had the best roster of female characters in any Whedon show I've ever seen and more great female characters than most shows by anyone.

It's also been said before that Angel's recurring guest characters are more interesting and would make a better show all by themselves than many shows' full regular casts.

(6) Angel: "Were you in Virginia?"
Wesley: "That’s beside the point."

I giggled for five minutes just now reading that.

 

[RoJoHen]

Kate (what the hell was with her being so important for two seasons and then suddenly vanishing forever?).

I've speculated before - loudly - that if the actress hadn't left to take another job, Kate would have had the role in season 3 that eventually went to the new character of Justine.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Damn Law & Order...

 

[label]

Kate (what the hell was with her being so important for two seasons and then suddenly vanishing forever?).

I've speculated before - loudly - that if the actress hadn't left to take another job, Kate would have had the role in season 3 that eventually went to the new character of Justine.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Damn Law & Order...

It does make sense.....however, I hated Kate by the time she left so I kind of actually like that we got a new character like Justine. However, I will admit, it would have been pretty meaty material if Kate ended up in the Justine role and she was the one who slit Wesley's throat and went up against Angel. The history there would have been delicious even though I couldn't stand the character.

 

[RoJoHen]

Yeah, I didn't like Kate much by the end either, but I don't think I was supposed. She had some really strong, tainted emotions, and she wasn't able to see things reasonably. And who can blame her, really?

 

[IndyJones]

(6) Angel: "Were you in Virginia?"
Wesley: "That’s beside the point."

I giggled for five minutes just now reading that.

That episode actually aired last night, I wouldn't have remembered it otherwise!

 

[Forbin]

(2) "I Will Remember You" - The most moving episode, it worked big time on a softie like me.

Me too. And I think it may be SMGs best performance on either show.

You know, I was thinking about that tonight and because I'm just about to rewatch the episode, I think she actually did her best work in The Body. She's absolutely riveting in that episode, for the entire thing. Nuanced, layered...it has it all.

That's a very good point. I'll call it a tie.

 

[saturn5]

Me too. And I think it may be SMGs best performance on either show.

You know, I was thinking about that tonight and because I'm just about to rewatch the episode, I think she actually did her best work in The Body. She's absolutely riveting in that episode, for the entire thing. Nuanced, layered...it has it all.

That's a very good point. I'll call it a tie.

Actually I rate SMG (and MT) in Forever just slightly better than the body