Angel - (My) First Impressions

[PsychoPere]

Maybe I'm making too much out of this?

No, I don't think so. In-universe, it's always bothered me too that Buffy and the Scoobies would automatically distrust Angel due to his new association with W&H. I can certainly understand being wary, but that sort of alliance is one that I would expect Buffy to either investigate personally or to send one of her closest friends to look into (i.e., Xander, Willow, or Giles), not some wet-behind-the-ears, annoying, useless idiot.

God, I hate Andrew.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Also, the word in this case is faze, not phase.

Eh?

Apparently, my sloppy grammar has caused some offense. As an English teacher, I am ashamed. Pesky homonyms.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Also, the word in this case is faze, not phase.

Eh?

Apparently, my sloppy grammar has caused some offense. As an English teacher, I am ashamed. Pesky homonyms.

Should I push my luck by pointing out that that's not actually a grammar problem, but rather a vocabulary problem?

No, that would be going too far.

Anyway, I entirely understand the urge to misspell that particular word - bloody Star Trek seeps into everything.

 

[RoJoHen]

Anyway, I entirely understand the urge to misspell that particular word - bloody Star Trek seeps into everything.

It's weird, though, because this website is the only place I have ever seen the word "faze." It doesn't even look like a real word to me.

 

[Lindley]

You know, the NX-01's Phase Cannons never seemed to faze the enemy much.

 

[saturn5]

Could have sworn this was a thread about Angel?

 

[Skellington]

^ The Buffyverse and the Star Trek universe have a kid together - the NuBSGverse. It's a family thing.

 

[Too Much Fun]

^ The Buffyverse and the Star Trek universe have a kid together - the NuBSGverse. It's a family thing.

Maybe that's why Whedon shows, Star Trek Shows, and BSG are the only sci-fi TV shows I like.

I leave "Angel" (and this thread) for two days to catch up on some TNG and it goes crazy off-topic.

"Smile Time" was not as perfect as I remembered. Of course all the puppet stuff rocked, but I thought this was a self-contained, standalone episode, and I think it would have been better if it was, because I wasn't happy about some of the character arc stuff in it. I really enjoyed Angel having a new love interest who is really sweet and Wesley's pep talk yelling at him about how he needs to stop making excuses to not pursue a relationship was even sweeter.

As for Wesley and Fred finally getting together, I like the two characters and had been rooting for them to become a couple for awhile, but I don't like the show's flip flopping about this. The writers seemed to close the book on the possibility of Fred ever reciprocating his feelings earlier in the season, then all of a sudden they pull the trigger on it. So I was pleased with it on an emotional level, but not so much on an intellectual level.

The other weird thing about this episode was the juxtaposition of the cute-looking puppets with such vulgar and disturbing material. I know, that's sort of the point since it's supposed to be cool how something looking so innocent could be so sinister, but some of it just made me feel 'icky'. In particular, the shots of the kids at the TVs while the lead evil puppet moans pleasurably (looked WAY too sexual ) and the puppets swearing and digging a hole in a guy's back. Yuck.

So there were a few gross moments, but the Angel/Werewolf stuff and the scenes with people reacting to Angel's puppet form were still golden (the only things I remember from the first time I saw this episode were Spike and Fred's reactions, because they were so unforgettably funny). The highlight for me this time was by far that brilliant 'determined heroes' slow motion shot of the Fred, Wes, and Gunn walking behind Puppet Angel and his sword.

As for "A Hole in the World" ---> ...I'm tempted to just leave a bunch of those and not write anything. But I'm too angry. Basically, my reaction is "bored now". Apparently, the writers didn't realize what a horrible mistake the whole Jasmine arc was, and now here we go again with one of the main characters being ruined by the 'possessed by something evil' bullshit. And this time it's even more infuriating because I liked Fred just the way she was. At least last time I wasn't a big fan of Cordelia, so writers committing character assassination on her was a little easier to take.

The new Fred arc also seems to be an example of Whedon's insistence on ripping happy couples apart. After all the build-up between Wes and Fred - the unrequited feelings, Fred's failed relationship with Gunn, and Wes's sad dalliance with Lilah, this is how it ends? Again, . I know I was supposed to be crying when she's slipping away in Wes's arms, but all I could think was "Are you kidding? Not this shit again!". I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Joss forbid couples ever be happy, of course. I was so glad this show was back on track and now it seems to be going back off the tracks to the same wretched well that sunk it in season 4. Someone please tell me this Illyra thing turns out better than Jasmine did, because I'm afraid. Afraid about the kind of crap that I could be forced to watch again. Very afraid.

 

[PsychoPere]

Oddly, Fred's death was the first time I genuinely cared about the character. Prior to that, I had always liked her well enough, but I was never entirely certain on what she brought to the group dynamic. I was very surprised, then, to be so sad over her death.

Illyria is definitely a much different character than Jasmine was. I never realized how great an actress Amy Acker was until the Illyria arc, and it's particularly noticeable when Illyria "channels" Fred on a couple of occasions - going from Illyria to Fred is jarring in such a disturbing, heart-wrending manner that Acker pulls off perfectly. She and Alexis Denisof get some great material to work with in upcoming episodes.

 

[RoJoHen]

As for "A Hole in the World" ---> ...I'm tempted to just leave a bunch of those and not write anything. But I'm too angry. Basically, my reaction is "bored now". Apparently, the writers didn't realize what a horrible mistake the whole Jasmine arc was, and now here we go again with one of the main characters being ruined by the 'possessed by something evil' bullshit. And this time it's even more infuriating because I liked Fred just the way she was. At least last time I wasn't a big fan of Cordelia, so writers committing character assassination on her was a little easier to take.

Are you serious? "A Hole in the World" is one of my absolute favorite episodes of anything ever, and it breaks my heart every time I watch it.

"Wesley, why can't I stay?"

Also, Illyria is the reason I fell in love with Amy Acker. She really gets to show how talented she is as an actress.

 

[label]

Are you serious? "A Hole in the World" is one of my absolute favorite episodes of anything ever, and it breaks my heart every time I watch it.

"Wesley, why can't I stay?"

Also, Illyria is the reason I fell in love with Amy Acker. She really gets to show how talented she is as an actress.

This is exactly me as well. I liked Fred and thought Amy was a fine actress up till the point where Fred dies and she has to play this new character. At first I was bummed and unsure what to make of it, but by the end of the season I thought it was brilliant and I would have loved to see where they would have taken that character over time if they had the 2 more seasons that show really deserved.

Also, she is definitely nothing like Jasmine.

 

[Too Much Fun]

All right, that sounds a little better than where I thought it was going. I'll have to wait and see. I'm going to trust you guys on this one, I hope I don't regret it.

 

[RoJoHen]

Unlike Jasmine did with Cordelia, Illyria isn't going to go around masquerading as Fred in order to bring about her evil plan. Illyria is a brand new character and is treated as such, and believe me, she is NOTHING like Jasmine.

I can't believe you didn't immediately continue watching the next episode! I was so blown away by "A Hole in the World" that I couldn't watch the next episode fast enough. The two episodes together make a fantastic two-parter that unbelievably is heart-wrenching.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Well, like I said, I was pretty pissed when it was over, thinking it looked like the show was about to tread some of the same ground it did with the Jasmine arc.

This suspicion discouraged me from jumping straight into the next one, as I often do when I really like a cliffhanger. Maybe I needed to come in here and get some reassurance that this wasn't just 'Jasmine 2.0' before I could move on. Thanks, guys.

 

[RoJoHen]

I did have the same feelings the first time I watched it. I thought, "Didn't we just do this last season?"

Trust me, it's not even close.

 

[PsychoPere]

I can't believe you didn't immediately continue watching the next episode! I was so blown away by "A Hole in the World" that I couldn't watch the next episode fast enough.

Waiting for the week to pass between those episodes was damned difficult.

 

[Warp Coil]

"You're Welcome" and "A Hole in the World" are two of my favorite episodes from the entire series. The first one was just incredibly bittersweet (we finally get to see the "real" Cordelia for the first time since season 3, and they do her character justice in her final appearance), and the second was just incredibly dramatic and sad. It definitely follows Joss's mantra of allowing his characters to have a moment of happiness, and then pull the rug out from under them and bring incredible pain and suffering. I think that the Fred/Illyria story is one of the best examples of this. Fred and Wesley finally get together, get a few scenes of genuine happiness, and then BAM! It's all taken away. Alexis Denisof and Amy Acker give amazing performances and this is probably the first time I am genuinely concerned for Fred. At this point in the series, I liked her well enough but I didn't realize how attached to her I was until this moment. I honestly didn't believe that Joss and the writers would actually kill Fred off, especially after we'd just lost Cordelia a few episodes earlier. I was in complete shock. In retrospect, it's a really fascinating and gutsy decision and it proves to be a really fascinating story. I quite like Illyria as a character even though I miss Fred. And the final scene between Wes and Illyria in the finale is absolutely beautiful.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I can see what they were going for and there were bits of Fred's death scene that I found effective, but overall it seemed like too much of a cop out. It's like Data in "Star Trek: Nemesis". If you're going to kill off a character, just kill it. Don't throw in some loophole so the actor can still be around...it robs the death of its potential power by making it something other than just a straight death. I'm just sick of this whole Whedon fetish for making characters blissfully happy and then killing one of them. It doesn't work on me anymore.

I watched the featurette on "You're Welcome" last night. I didn't realize it was the 100th episode, but knowing that, it makes more sense. What better occasion to tie up the loose ends with Cordelia? In the case of both episodes, the big emotional pay off didn't get to me as much as I knew it was supposed to, but I liked "You're Welcome" more. At least it felt fresh and did some new things with the characters. I now realize that it was kind of a showcase for all the best characters from the first four seasons too (except Lilah). "A Hole in the World" started off promising, but by the end it looked like Joss was just up to his old tricks and I've had enough of them.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Off the top of my head, I can only think of two Whedon characters that stayed dead after they died. Tara and Buffy's mom.

 

[PsychoPere]

EDIT: Too Much Fun, you might want to wait another episode or so before reading this response, if you haven't read it prior to this edit.

If you're going to kill off a character, just kill it. Don't throw in some loophole so the actor can still be around...it robs the death of its potential power by making it something other than just a straight death.

But Fred is dead. Her physical body may still be around, but the person is gone forever. I think it's even more tragic that she died in a manner that resulted in some other thing using her body than it would have been if she had simply died and been buried. This way, Wes, Gunn, and the others feel her death every single time they look at Illyria, which I think is more damaging and powerful than a simple death.